Three fold repetition rule

And, of course, you will also logically need a "claim 50 move" button.

its not that hard...if you think you have reached the same position 3 times, click the button that has the word "draw" somewhere near it. Put a bunch of buttons there, and yeah with 2 seconds to make your move before the timer you might very well click the wrong thing and lose.

Well, I've played several other computerized chess games, and every time a 3 fold repetition occurred it automatically drew the game. I've also played lots of games over the board with friends, and when there was a 3 fold repetition one or the other of us would mention it and we knew it was a draw. I also played in 1 sanctioned tournament, (USCF, not FIDE), and the situation did come up once for me and I handled it the way I'd always handled it with friends. Mentioned the 3 fold and we called the game a draw. Was I aware there was some rule about actually stating that the game was a draw? Well, no, I'd never thought about it. I don't know what the USCF rules on it are precisely, and until MJ4H mentioned it I could hardly have told you what FIDE's Laws of Chess, Article 9, subsection 2-b has to say about claiming 3 fold draws. But I've felt like I've known the rules of chess for many years, and until I ran into the problem of claiming the 3 fold with the draw button I'd never had any problems.

My first thought was not what to press the button for the draw like you said, my first thought was that the game was broken. Same with the original poster who said as much and perhaps a sizable section of casual players who don't spend much time in forums or reading FIDE literature. And in my blitz game I didn't figure it out before time expired.

"Yes : the fact that you are adding another button for a benefit that I estimate near from zero.

Adding a button is not a neutral operation, it simply decreases simplicity"

Well, I think getting rid of auto-drawing and requiring you to click the draw button in a simulation of saying "That's a 3 fold" to your opponent complicates things for a near zero benefit. But apparently enough of you are worried about accidentally getting into 3 fold repetitions where neither player is trying for a draw, (I've never seen this happen in a game, and I'm guessing it might happen in 1 out of a billion games), was worth it. Is it too much to ask this requirement be made obvious to casual gamers who probably won't be scouring the knowledge base articles or reading the FAQ (because us fools think we know the rules of the game you know)?

rooperi wrote:

Irontiger wrote:

JulioJuliopolis wrote:

I'll try again with my 3rd suggested compromise. For those of you who don't have any problem with the way the 3 fold draws are handled now, would you see any drawback to adding another button labelled "claim 3 fold" next to the draw and abort/resign buttons with the following criteria?

(...)

Yes : the fact that you are adding another button for a benefit that I estimate near from zero.

Adding a button is not a neutral operation, it simply decreases simplicity. To push it far, imagine having to move your pieces around a 1000 pages long end user agreement that chess.com would post all over all pages to be juridically safe.

And, of course, you will also logically need a "claim 50 move" button.

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Yup. Where does it end.

All this does is add coding to benefit the minority who can't put 2 and 2 together and come up with 4. I'd like to think that number is minimal.

If the draw is not automatic, it's not because some people want to play on after having repeated 3 times, it's because you have to claim the draw to have it.

The point about reading the FAQ is not that you should read the whole FAQ before doing anything, it is that in the case you do not know something, you go there and see. You could also demand a button "castle 0-0" and another "castle 0-0-0", because, after all, it's not obvious that you have to play the king on the relevant square to do it, and going to the FAQ is too much hassle.

Ask for extra buttons and maybe even extra fingers to stick up your arse, @JulieOP?

Time for a chill pill, perhaps?

A suppository?

Alright, I give in. There's absolutely no room for compromise on this, period. I'm stupid for not knowing about the rule ahead of time, or for not guessing it during my game. I need to a chill pill and a suppository for not instantly conforming my opinion to the majority in this thread simply because they're the majority. Seeking clarification of their positions was ridiculous. Trying to better explain my own and find a solution that would work for all of us was out of line. It was arrogant of me to think that any suggestion attempting to improve this site from a peon like me should ever be posted. Don't worry, I won't make the mistake of coming to this forum again. (Don't forget to follow this up with a zany witticism about the door hitting my arse on the way out zborg!)

I think "suppository" is probably overstating.

It took 3 pages to accept that one should read the rules of a game before they play the game?

Ouch. 

If you were genuinely trying to improve things for everyone, you would be right to buck the majority and push your own agenda. However, you aren't doing that. You should really be using ' vast majority', in place of 'majority'.

Only a tiny handful of people, out of the 5million+ members, seem to have an issue here. Most of the people in response to this thread have stated that they don't think it needs a special button or warning on the page. Why do you think this is? Is it just to mess with you? Of course not. It is because the problem doesn't exist for almost everyone who uses this site.

How do I claim a draw? Hmmm, there's a button with draw on it there. Maybe I should try that. <- this is the split second thought 99% of the people who were unsure had almost immediately before working it out. For the other 1%, there is a FAQ with the rules.

The term 'Resonably Practicable' comes to mind. In very simple terms, it is Risk vs Cost (There is more to it that that, but it will do for this example)

In this instance, chess.com has over 5 million users. The amount of people who have had this problem you are describing is extremely negligible with the worst possible outcome being that someone may lose one game before searching the FAQs and never making the same mistake.

To add the buttons you describe, they would have to code in the button (and probably one for 50 move rule as well, while they're at it), which probably won't take too long. However, they then have to take the site offline while they implement the change.

This could impact 5million people, cost them a programmers time and business disruption for downtime. All of this for a tiny handful of people who, worst case, will lose one game before working out what went wrong.

As a business owner, could you justify this? Would you deem it 'Reasonably Practicable'? Common sense tells you that it isn't.

I'm sorry if you feel like you have been steamrolled by the majority, I really am, but it is because you are flogging a dead horse. The problem doesn't exist for 99% of users.

The fixed cost in not the real problem. The big problem is that once added, it will be one more button (two with the 50 move, four if you add castling both sides, etc.), when the interface should be kept at a minimum.

@OP : yes, you were trolled, but yes, you had answers. So no need to act as a victim, everyone gest trolled on the forums.

Because the opponent doesn't have to take the time to click it.  They can ignore it.  This would just be an unnecessary button.

I agree.

Hi, I have just read through this thread and am still rather unclear on this rule.  I have reached the same position three times in an Online Chess game but have been unable to claim a draw by three-fold repetition. I have tried clicking on the draw button which has only sent a draw offer to my opponent which he has to agree to, whereas in Live Chess the draw is claimed automatically. 

Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong? Thanks in advance.

Can you please link the game.

That is strange. When I've had it, the button has changed to 'claim draw'. You still don't get that now?

No, there's no draw button there now just a message saying that I have a pending draw offer. Before I pressed the button it just said "offer draw" although it wasn't my turn to move if that makes any difference?