Unsporting or Cheating?

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Avatar of SlieveDonard

In round 5 of a 100 player knockout tournament (see link below), two players in group 2 have agreed to draw their games so that they both progress to round 6. They agreed their draws after just 2 moves!

I reckon they should both be booted out of the tournament. Anyone else have a view?

http://www.chess.com/tournaments/pairings.html?id=34693&round=5

Avatar of beardogjones

It depends on the rules about draw offers and arranged games and

determinism with respect to the universe.

Avatar of eddiewsox

I think that Grandmasters often do pretty much the same thing, though they make it less obvious. 

Avatar of xqsme

What could they hope to gain by conceding half games instead of playing for full win ??

Avatar of ivandh
beardogjones wrote:

It depends on the rules about draw offers and arranged games and

determinism with respect to the universe.


+1

eddiewsox wrote:

I think that Grandmasters often do pretty much the same thing, though they make it less obvious. 


well that's why they are GM's.

Avatar of xqsme

Motivation in a tournament however is different surely ?

Avatar of pathfinder416

It's not cheating. They won enough of their other games to put themselves in a position of control.

Avatar of Pokervane

The fact that they were dumb enough to make their collusion so obvious should be grounds enough to give them both 0.

Avatar of sleepchamp
xqsme wrote:

What could they hope to gain by conceding half games instead of playing for full win ??


a 100% chance of advancing to the next round of the tournament, instead of 50%.

If they were the only ones in the group with a chance of advancing anyway, I don't see what harm there is in a mutually agreed draw. This kind of thing is pretty common in real life tourneys from what I understand.

Avatar of ivandh

I think the system used in many sports - 3 points for win, 1 each for draw - would help to encourage more aggressive play.

Avatar of TheOldReb
ivandh wrote:

I think the system used in many sports - 3 points for win, 1 each for draw - would help to encourage more aggressive play.


I think it would encourage more wreckless ( poor ) play as well. 

Avatar of Pokervane
Reb wrote:
ivandh wrote:

I think the system used in many sports - 3 points for win, 1 each for draw - would help to encourage more aggressive play.


I think it would encourage more wreckless ( poor ) play as well. 


It would also encourage more collusion (depending on the format).

Avatar of ivandh

What is aggressive to one player is reckless to a better one.

Avatar of Rodsterix

I hear what your saying, but I don't see the harm in it, eventually a winner will be deceided. There only delaying the inevitable. . . . They can't "draw" there way to a victory?

Avatar of commchf
pathfinder416 wrote:

It's not cheating. They won enough of their other games to put themselves in a position of control.


+1

Avatar of SlieveDonard
You guys seem to be forgetting that this happened in a knock out tournament. We don't see too many knock out tourneys at GM level. Let me give you a comparison, say Man Utd and Man City both decided to take a draw against each other in round 3 of the FA Cup so that they could both get into the fourth round. Do you think the other teams in the competition would stand for it? No way
Avatar of pathfinder416
mark100net wrote:
Reb wrote:
ivandh wrote:

I think the system used in many sports - 3 points for win, 1 each for draw - would help to encourage more aggressive play.


I think it would encourage more wreckless ( poor ) play as well. 


It would also encourage more collusion (depending on the format).


Indeed. Some basic arithmetic: Two evenly-matched players play 2 games against each other, and either (1) agree to a pair of draws and get 2 points each, or (2) agree to alternate wins and get 3 points each. Clearly the 3/1/0 scoring system offers greater rewards for collusion. But, in practice, arranging to throw games might be trickier than arranging to draw.

Avatar of TheOldReb

In a knock out competition they shouldnt allow both to advance in the case of a draw imo ....  

Avatar of TheGrobe

Agree.  They should settle ties the old fashioned way:  Rochambeau.

Avatar of Pokervane

Re: those who say this is not cheating and not unsportsmanlike:

By logical extension, it is not unsportsmanlike for the entire group to agree amongst themselves to draw every game--thereby ensuring every group member advances.