Draw by repetition

satorichess

Why the simple chess rule "draw by repetition" just don't work on live chess?

ivandh

The "claim draw" button didn't work?

kohai
satorichess wrote:

Why the simple chess rule "draw by repetition" just don't work on live chess?


After your opponent has made his/her 3rd repetitive move, make your move then click on the Draw button to claim the game 'by repetition'

kohai

possibly yes.

satorichess

I see........I did not know I had to press the button....I just though it would be automatically detected by the software.

So why it's not this way?  wouldn't be better? I thought the draw button only serves the purpose to offer a draw to your opponent at a certain match stage.

Thank you for your explanation anyway guys

fhwee

To:- Kohai, I had this problem about an hour ago. I was having a "live chess" game with EDM (1347). After he had made his 6th move (completion of 3 fold repetition), I clicked on the draw button, on move 50.

 The message came on that I offered him a draw, and he refused.Please refer to my game from move 44 to 49 (repetition checks) After this, my position worsened and I lost the game on time. When I informed him on this draw ruling, my opponent replied that he was not aware of it.Eleven points was deducted from my rating .

kohai

You could've claimed after making your 49th move just as your opponent could have claimed after making his 49th move

When you clicked on the draw button on move 50, did you make your move first, then click on draw ? Or did you click draw before making your move on your turn?

fhwee

I made my 50th move first, then I click  on the draw button .

Cystem_Phailure

It's easy to miss.  All that happens when the position three-peats is the wording changes from "offer draw" to "claim draw".  It's not something that catches your eye.  You pretty much have to be expecting it and look for it.  I've discovered after the fact that I've missed a couple instances in online games, and I expect it's even easier to miss in a short live chess game where you're concentrating on your moves.

satorichess

I guess probably in a live match you have to claim the draw to  the referee....but once again here on "live chess" we have a software (which is a kind of referee anyway on moves,time, points and so on) so I guess the draw by repetition it should be automatically detected by computer (like many others internet live chess software do by the way)

That's my proposal to the comunity anyway if you agree with me.

I guess it would makes things simple and fair for everybody

Cystem_Phailure
satorichess wrote:

 so I guess the draw by repetition it should be automatically detected by computer


Well, it is automatically detected, but it isn't automatically invoked.  And it shouldn't be, because there will be times when a player doesn't want to avail him/herself of the option.  I don't see where fairness comes into consideration, as both players have exactly the same information and conditions available to them, regardless of the setup.

But I wouldn't mind having it be a slightly more obvious visual cue when the draw condition is met and the option is available.

satorichess

Well as you can read from some post here other than mine it looks like things don't seems too obvious.

On facebook Chesscube just do it automatically Schachgeek and there are others, but the point here is does draw  need to be invoked? (I'm just asking)

It's not a matter of how many software do this or that.....the point is what chess rules are on this matter (again I'm asking) and if they can be met in a simple way on an internet live match.

you sad

Chess.com's interpretation is more in line with the actual rules of chess, in that repetition (or 50 move rule) has to be claimed. It's not automatic.

Sometimes people repeat moves as a tactic to make a time control - even if taking the draw is not their intent.

 

It may be a tactic but a dangerous one Schachgeek as also your opponent can claim the draw if I have correctly understood..... so I would really never play 3 times the same move unless I want to obtain a draw really.

kissinger

sometimes if a game is going down the drain; its handy to get a 3 move repetition draw....it's better than a loss...no shame in using that rule....Just thinking outloud here...

panandh

As per FIDE rules, 3 times repeat position has to be claimed by the playerr and it is not a automatic win. For example in a game where a position occured 3 times and the players (both) failed to claim draw, the game ends with one player winning. Then the result is not a draw. The player has to claim during the game. But I'm not sure whether he had to claim during position or later.

panandh

The repeatition is for position and not for the moves. If the same position is obtained (with the same color to be moved) 3 times, then the player can claim draw. More frequently this is achieved by repeating moves, but many times it may not be achieved by repeatition of moves as it happed in WC 2010

satorichess

I guess now I've lost more than a game on live chess that I should have easily turned on draw.Yell

Maybe it would be useful to let know this particular rules (on a separate window) to the less experienced/novice players like me (even though you are supposed to be aware)

Thanks everybody chessmates Smile

panandh

In turn-based chess, the "Offer Draw" becomes "Claim Offer". Something similar would be helpful in LiveChess also.

panandh

But I guess the load of the server is heavy and searching the repeat position (and not repeat moves) for every move of every game may heavily load the server.

ratkins

Ok, I just found this little thread after a fairly annoying game in live chess.  I was running out of time in the game below so I offered a draw, which my opponent turned down.  I guess I didn't offer the draw AFTER the 3-fold but just before it happened.  So I said to myself "OK, I will just make the moves a few more times and the game is over."  After a while, I asked my opponent if the computer didn't recognize the 3-fold rule.  No reply.  Then after a while in frustration, I just resigned the game rather than continue with the nonsense below.  Having already offered a draw, I didn't see the point in doing it again.  (If the draw tab turns to a claim draw tab i just missed it).  I guess I understand that its too difficult for the computer to automatically detect the draw (or maybe its more consistent with the rules quoted above), but I must confess this feature really steamed me tonight.

Here is the game.  I completely blew the ending because its blitz!  On the 3-fold issue, lesson learned.

 

 

Bur_Oak
Cystem_Phailure wrote:

But I wouldn't mind having it be a slightly more obvious visual cue when the draw condition is met and the option is available.


I'd like that for OTB games, too ... buuuuuuutt ....