Who cares? The "anti-cheating" committee would never find out that you are using one, since your moves are still your moves.
However, keep in mind that if you are practicing for OTB, you are hampering yourself.
is it cheating to use additional evaluation board ?
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petrip wrote:
OTB making notes during game is forbidden...
Thanks, I didn't know that. Just checked myself and looks like its true. Well then, question closed.
Will save this idea for analysing games afterwards before checking them with engine (wanted to start doing it for a long time now). This way it also should help to improve.
SecretOfMana wrote:
Who cares? The "anti-cheating" committee would never find out that you are using one, since your moves are still your moves.
I usually loose interest in other PC games after I start cheating really fast 
. And I want to keep playing chess.
Also your idea about hampering myself and some other negative impact bothered me too.
SecretOfMana wrote:
Who cares? The "anti-cheating" committee would never find out that you are using one, since your moves are still your moves.
Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts
Rsava wrote:
SecretOfMana wrote:
Who cares? The "anti-cheating" committee would never find out that you are using one, since your moves are still your moves.
Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts
LongIslandMark wrote:
SecretOfMana wrote:
Who cares? The "anti-cheating" committee would never find out that you are using one, since your moves are still your moves.
However, keep in mind that if you are practicing for OTB, you are hampering yourself.
The thinking that says it's "okay" since you can't get caught bothers me.
To the OP: it is against the rules for "live" games as I understand it, but if you had that understanding with you opponent before you started an unrated game, I can't see where anyone would care.
GrayRRR wrote:
SecretOfMana wrote:
Who cares? The "anti-cheating" committee would never find out that you are using one, since your moves are still your moves.
I usually loose interest in other PC games after I start cheating really fast . And I want to keep playing chess.
Also your idea about hampering myself and some other negative impact bothered me too.
Is it cheating if you use some sort of visualisation tool? Read this page:
http://support.chess.com/Knowledgebase/Article/View/124/0/cheaters--cheating-what-you-need-to-know
What are the rules?
- No chess programs or engines (e.g. Chessmaster, Fritz, Houdini, Stockfish, Chessbase with any active UCI engine, etc.) can be used to analyse positions in ongoing games.
- In turn-based chess, you may consult books or databases (including the Chess.com Explorer) for opening moves. "Tablebases," which are specialized databases of particular endgame positions, may NOT be used.
- In Live Chess, no outside assistance OF ANY KIND is permitted.
- Fixing game results by playing with multiple accounts or losing intentionally is also considered cheating
They only DISALLOW ACTIVE UCI ENGINES TO EVALUATE POSITIONS AND MOST DATABASES . What you stated does not meet any condition to be called a cheater.
But as I said, if you depend too much on visualization tools, you will be handicapped in a real OTB game which is following the official rules, as you may only use your head as visualization tool there.
LongIslandMark wrote:
Not sure what you are posting about - from your last post it sounds like you are agreeing with the rules. I think the last few posts before that were just about the idea that it was "okay if you don't get caught". I see you show the Netherland's flag - perhaps it was a misunderstanding due to different use of language idioms?
What the OP stated does not conflict with any conditions chess.com states to be called a cheater (well, at least in the FAQ), that is my point.
And I am only talking about the live games he plays on this website.
he's just being a rules lawyer. :p even though you can deduce via common sense that using an analysis board "shouldn't" be allowed, i think that he brings a good point that many things on the faq are unclear at best.
Yep, this is pretty unclear 
- No reference tools of any sort are permitted in Live Chess
EDIT: To be fair I should point out where I found this little gem. In the "online" rules section. I mean that's logical, right? 
LoveYouSoMuch wrote:
he's just being a rules lawyer. :p even though you can deduce via common sense that using an analysis board "shouldn't" be allowed, i think that he brings a good point that many things on the faq are unclear at best.
As petrip said already this is forbidden by general chess rules which should also apply to online chess.
Wikipedia confirms that:
"Players may not use any notes, outside sources of information (including computers), or advice from other people. Analysis on another board is not permitted. "
it is correspondence chess. The old-school way of doing correspondence chess is through snail-mail. Doing it this way you had to make moves on your own chess board and so of course you could practice variations over the board as long as you set back up the original position before you actually made a move. I see nothing wrong with what the OP is doing. He is evaluating the moves himself. I actually have more of a problem with using an opening book rather than what the OP is doing.
my bad, i thought OP was talking about correspondence chess. Of course an evaluation board shouldn't be permitted in a live game, you should only use the interface chess.com gives you. If OP was talking about online chess, then I would be ok with the use of an evaluation board.
Tbh, I did not even know that page existed till now. Well OP, you have your answer, it is not allowed.
But on a side note, there is not a single way in which they could actually know you are using one (unless you admit it).
chesshole napisał:
it is correspondence chess. The old-school way of doing correspondence chess is through snail-mail. Doing it this way you had to make moves on your own chess board and so of course you could practice variations over the board as long as you set back up the original position before you actually made a move. I see nothing wrong with what the OP is doing. He is evaluating the moves himself. I actually have more of a problem with using an opening book rather than what the OP is doing.
Correspondence chess is quite different from OTB or live chess. In live games having an additional analysis board can give a player the advantage of actually visualising the variations on the board which is much easier than calculating in memory.
Doing so would be unfair against the opponents who never use additional boards in live chess because they are used to OTB rules which prohibit such activities.
The rules on chess.com are really unclear in not counting the use of analysis boards as cheating in live games. On another sites (FICS for example) this is clearly prohibited.
From my own experience - even though a player does not use any engine and produces the variations using their own head - if they could use an additional board the variations would be more accurate in many cases. I had lots of games where I missed opponent's move while calculating a variation but then saw it clearly after making 6-7 moves and seeing the resulting position on the board.
Therefore I think we should follow the OTB rules in live chess and only look at the board which chess.com provides for entering the moves. Not only does it give equal chances to our opponents who follow those rules - it also helps developing chess skills for anyone who uses internet live chess as a training tool before an OTB tournament.
SecretOfMana wrote:
Tbh, I did not even know that page existed till now. Well OP, you have your answer, it is not allowed.
But on a side note, there is not a single way in which they could actually know you are using one (unless you admit it).
But on another side note:
Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ~J.C. Watts
dzikus wrote:
chesshole napisał:
it is correspondence chess. The old-school way of doing correspondence chess is through snail-mail. Doing it this way you had to make moves on your own chess board and so of course you could practice variations over the board as long as you set back up the original position before you actually made a move. I see nothing wrong with what the OP is doing. He is evaluating the moves himself. I actually have more of a problem with using an opening book rather than what the OP is doing.
Correspondence chess is quite different from OTB or live chess. In live games having an additional analysis board can give a player the advantage of actually visualising the variations on the board which is much easier than calculating in memory.
Doing so would be unfair against the opponents who never use additional boards in live chess because they are used to OTB rules which prohibit such activities.
The rules on chess.com are really unclear in not counting the use of analysis boards as cheating in live games. On another sites (FICS for example) this is clearly prohibited.
From my own experience - even though a player does not use any engine and produces the variations using their own head - if they could use an additional board the variations would be more accurate in many cases. I had lots of games where I missed opponent's move while calculating a variation but then saw it clearly after making 6-7 moves and seeing the resulting position on the board.
Therefore I think we should follow the OTB rules in live chess and only look at the board which chess.com provides for entering the moves. Not only does it give equal chances to our opponents who follow those rules - it also helps developing chess skills for anyone who uses internet live chess as a training tool before an OTB tournament.
Guess you didn't read my second post...
chesshole napisał:
dzikus wrote:
chesshole napisał:
it is correspondence chess. The old-school way of doing correspondence chess is through snail-mail. Doing it this way you had to make moves on your own chess board and so of course you could practice variations over the board as long as you set back up the original position before you actually made a move. I see nothing wrong with what the OP is doing. He is evaluating the moves himself. I actually have more of a problem with using an opening book rather than what the OP is doing.
Correspondence chess is quite different from OTB or live chess. In live games having an additional analysis board can give a player the advantage of actually visualising the variations on the board which is much easier than calculating in memory.
Doing so would be unfair against the opponents who never use additional boards in live chess because they are used to OTB rules which prohibit such activities.
The rules on chess.com are really unclear in not counting the use of analysis boards as cheating in live games. On another sites (FICS for example) this is clearly prohibited.
From my own experience - even though a player does not use any engine and produces the variations using their own head - if they could use an additional board the variations would be more accurate in many cases. I had lots of games where I missed opponent's move while calculating a variation but then saw it clearly after making 6-7 moves and seeing the resulting position on the board.
Therefore I think we should follow the OTB rules in live chess and only look at the board which chess.com provides for entering the moves. Not only does it give equal chances to our opponents who follow those rules - it also helps developing chess skills for anyone who uses internet live chess as a training tool before an OTB tournament.
Guess you didn't read my second post...
Actually, your second post appeared while I had been typing mine. You won on time ;)
I am usually playing 15/10 live games and I thought I will benefit a lot from having evaluation chess board in some additional chess program (without chess engine running) where I can make same moves as in current game but also there I can mark and briefly comment my current plan as well as carry out variants calculations. For me benefit lies in:
1. having history of my thinking process during the game for later analysis and improvement
2. simplification of variants calculations (easier to not miss anything when it's written down) as well as visualization
So the question is, is this cheating?
Basically I can do same stuff just with pen and paper which I believe isn't forbidden (but less convenient ofcourse). But on the other side I am using additional chess set which I believe is something which can be forbidden easily.
What do you all think about it?