K+N vs K+N: Only drawn on Chesscom?

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YChess

Here is a game I played. On move 51...Kxh4, the game is automatically claimed a draw, with K+N vs K+N, but there is a possible checkmate combination on the board.

In just 15 moves, I completed the checkmate, so the 50 move rule does not apply, however the game is already claimed draw automatically before this could happen, just wondering if this is accurate.
FIDE Laws of Chess, Article 1.3 States: If the position is such that neither player can possibly checkmate, the game is drawn.
There is clearly a possible checkmate here.
The USCF Chess Rule Book Article 14D states that: The game is drawn when one of the following endings exists as of the most recently determined legal move, in which the possibility of a win is excluded for either side.
However, in the lawbook, the following endings did NOT mention K+N vs K+N, which means the game should not be declared a draw. 


In Chess.com Support Page, quote: the game is immediately declared a draw if there is no way to end the game in checkmate. 

If both sides have any one of the following, and there are no pawns on the board: 

  • A lone king 
  • a king and bishop
  • a king and knight (But this seems to only apply for chess.com)

Clearly, there is no mention for the case of K+N and K+N to be specifically automatically claimed a draw in neither USCF nor FIDE...  Only on Chess.com? You can take a look at these for reference:
USCF Lawbook: https://new.uschess.org/sites/default/files/media/documents/us-chess-rule-book-online-only-edition-chapters-1-2-9-10-11-8-23-21.pdf 
FIDE Laws of Chess: https://www.fide.com/FIDE/handbook/LawsOfChess.pdf 

ChocolateIsCool2022

I believe you should go to the bottom left of chess.com, press help, and then press Make a suggestion. when you press, just tell it your  problem with the checkmate! or, you could go to bugs and do it there. I think you should do both. They will then consider the problem and will send you a message here on chess.com. Hope this works for ya!

guessmyELO

ok yes as you said it is possible (the same can be said with opposite-colored bishops) the checkmate would only happen if the opponent is an absolute doofus or if it is a tactical combination. I think the reason chess.com did this is because there are people who don't resign no matter what and they wanted to make the website more player friendly instead of have every game go down to the 50 move rule.

ChocolateIsCool2022

Yeah prolly

binomine

FIDE Rules: Any mate on the board, even a helpmate, means it isn't a draw. 

USChess: Any forced mate on the board and it isn't a draw. 

Chess.com: If you can mate a bare king, then it isn't a draw. 

One of you ran out of time, and since you can't mate a bare king with a knight + king, then it is a draw. Obviously, chess.com choose the easiest for a computer to arbitrate, which is why it does what it does.

YChess
binomine wrote:

FIDE Rules: Any mate on the board, even a helpmate, means it isn't a draw. 

USChess: Any forced mate on the board and it isn't a draw. 

Chess.com: If you can mate a bare king, then it isn't a draw. 

One of you ran out of time, and since you can't mate a bare king with a knight + king, then it is a draw. Obviously, chess.com choose the easiest for a computer to arbitrate, which is why it does what it does.

I dont think its easier when they added an extra thing to make K+N vs K+N a draw.

YChess
guessmyELO wrote:

ok yes as you said it is possible (the same can be said with opposite-colored bishops) the checkmate would only happen if the opponent is an absolute doofus or if it is a tactical combination. I think the reason chess.com did this is because there are people who don't resign no matter what and they wanted to make the website more player friendly instead of have every game go down to the 50 move rule.

yeah true it can reduce stalling

tygxc

@7
"it can reduce stalling"
++ No KN vs. KN is made a draw and KR vs. KR not.
The best solution is to play with increment.
Then you can always win a won position or draw a drawn position.
All FIDE competitions are with increment.
Play without increment is like in the previous century with analog clocks.

ChocolateIsCool2022
tygxc wrote:

@7
"it can reduce stalling"
++ No KN vs. KN is made a draw and KR vs. KR not.
The best solution is to play with increment.
Then you can always win a won position or draw a drawn position.
All FIDE competitions are with increment.
Play without increment is like in the previous century with analog clocks.

And not only integer is fun, analog is boring, integers is next level fun, anyone up for a 45/45 game?

Seriously

Scipio

As far as I understand it K+N vs K+N is a draw on Chess.com because there is no forced checkmate. Chess.om has here the same rules as USCF. FIDE however says it is only a draw if there is no possible checkmate.