Unjustly lose game!

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Avatar of Eliash

Hello everyone!

My question is:

This is not my first game against an opponent in live chess, I have advantage in the game and I lead on time, while my opponent begins to run out of time. And now comes the annoying moment. Suddenly appears in a message on the computer screen "trying to reconnect". And after he does it a few times suddenly my time is alredy ran out and the opponent gets more time than he had,In the end only because of this reason I lost the game. If someone knows why it happened or how to stop this phenomenon,I will be happy and grateful person because it is not fair!

Thank you all!

Avatar of mschosting

Its named latency or lag:

 

Lag is a common word meaning to fail to keep up or to fall behind. [1] In real-time applications, the term is used when the application fails to respond in a timely fashion to inputs.[2][3] The most common use regards online gaming when the game doesn't respond in sync with the player's controls, usually due to a slow internet connection, server latency or overworked hardware.

Lag is also often used in reference to video games to describe to the delay (or latency) between an action by a player and the reaction of the game.[4]

In distributed applications (such as MMORPGs), lag is often caused by communication latency, which is the time taken for a sent packet of data to be received at the other end. It includes the time to encode the packet for transmission and transmit it, the time for that data to traverse the network equipment between the nodes, and the time to receive and decode the data. This is also known as "one-way latency". A minimum bound on latency is determined by the distance between communicating devices and the speed at which the signal propagates in the circuits (typically 70–95% of the speed of light in vacuum). Actual latency is often much higher because of packet processing in networking equipment, and other traffic.

The term lag is often also used as a synonym for communication latency.[5] This can be misleading because there can be other causes for the symptom.

Avatar of Eliash

Ok thank you very much!!

Avatar of mschosting
yeres30 wrote:

This talk of "lag" is a lot of bull because Chess.Com cheats all who experience "Connection Interrupted" of fair play.

When an opponent's clock is stopped at 1.21, Chess.Com adds several seconds to it when the clock is restarted after connection is restored from a temporary disconnection so that instead of the clock showing 1.21 when restarted it shows 1.40.

In all games where temporary disconnection does not occur, a clock that is stopped at 1.21 remains at 1.21 when restarted.   

The thing that is unfair of Chess.Com is when Chess.Com adds more time to an opponent's clock when Chess.Com restarts the opponent's clock after reconnection from a temporary disconnection.

What we who experience temporary disconnection would like to hear from all who talk of "lag" is to explain why and how a clock that is stopped at 1.21 is restarted at 1.40 and not 1.21 after reconnection from a temporary disconection.


Its sometime of lag correction mechanism, where the computer finds out the delay from the Internet correction and tries to adjust to it. Or you can simply think that's really unfair and everyone is cheating against you whatever makes you happy Laughing

Avatar of C20H25N3O

It's weird how a simple internet application like chess.com can lag SO much that it sometimes falls behind like 1 minute. It's definitely not a problem of my internet connection. I never have any latancy issues; only on chess.com.

Avatar of mschosting
C20H25N3O wrote:

It's weird how a simple internet application like chess.com can lag SO much that it sometimes falls behind like 1 minute. It's definitely not a problem of my internet connection. I never have any latancy issues; only on chess.com.


have you ever played on other server? playchess, fics, chessok? All servers get lag problems, and those are not even browser based like chess.com, I rarely noticed lag at least for me. But funny thing about lag is you see your opponent gaining time and you think damn that's an unfair advantage, most of the times they see it exactly like we do and are thinking the same way about you

Avatar of C20H25N3O
mschosting wrote:
C20H25N3O wrote:

It's weird how a simple internet application like chess.com can lag SO much that it sometimes falls behind like 1 minute. It's definitely not a problem of my internet connection. I never have any latancy issues; only on chess.com.


have you ever played on other server? playchess, fics, chessok? All servers get lag problems, and those are not even browser based like chess.com, I rarely noticed lag at least for me. But funny thing about lag is you see your opponent gaining time and you think damn that's an unfair advantage, most of the times they see it exactly like we do and are thinking the same way about you


Yes other chess servers lag too. But I just don't understand how it can lag so much? It's definitely not my internet connection.

Avatar of mschosting
yeres30 wrote:
mschosting wrote:
xxxxxxx
But funny thing about lag is you see your opponent gaining time and you think damn that's an unfair advantage, most of the times they see it exactly like we do and are thinking the same way about you

Chess.Com adds time on restart only when and only when temporary disconnection occurs. 

It is against the rules of chess to restart a clock with more time than when the clock was stopped. 


This is not fide or uscf rated rules don't really apply. And the idea is to be fair for both opponents but just ask about it to some of the staff maybe they can change that if there are more complains.

Avatar of mschosting
yeres30 wrote:
mschosting wrote:
This is not fide or uscf rated rules don't really apply. And the idea is to be fair for both opponents but just ask about it to some of the staff maybe they can change that if there are more complains.

Not FIDE or USCF? 

A game in Live Chess is ended when time expires, when checkmate occurs or when an opponent resigns. That is FIDE or USCF. 

A game in Live Chess is drawn when a claim (by clicking on "DRAW") is made on the occurrence of three identical positions, when stalemate occurs, and when both players agree to a draw.  That is FIDE or USCF.

Chess.Com simply can not violate the Laws of Chess in Live Chess by adding time to a clock on restart.

The Laws of Chess requires that restart time must be identical to the time when the clock was stopped. 


those are not fide or uscf rules those are universal chess rules such as the pieces movement. chess.com is a private and independent website they can change the rules they want to, and thats no even changing.

You see your clock running at one speed, but your opponent may see it at another speed, its not completely direct

Avatar of mschosting
yeres30 wrote:
mschosting wrote:
those are not fide or uscf rules those are universal chess rules such as the pieces movement. chess.com is a private and independent website they can change the rules they want to, and thats no even changing.

You see your clock running at one speed, but your opponent may see it at another speed, its not completely direct


Those rules concerning when a game is ended or when a game is drawn in Live Chess are all under Article 10 of the FIDE Laws of Chess.


I understand that, but fide doesn't own the game of chess although they want to :) much before ever existed any chess federation those rules already existed and chess.com is in no way related with FIDE or USCF, but just report your complain Im sure they will explain much better than I can use this link:

http://support.chess.com/Tickets/Submit

Avatar of mschosting
yeres30 wrote:
mschosting wrote:I understand that, but fide doesn't own the game of chess although they want to :) much before ever existed any chess federation those rules already existed and chess.com is in no way related with FIDE or USCF, but just report your complain Im sure they will explain much better than I can use this link:

What has owning the game of chess got to do with anything? 

Chess.Com offers a product called "Live Chess" where it offers simulation of OTB bullet, blitz, and standard chess on the internet and in compliance with USCF laws of chess.

Any website will ofer its own adaptation of the rules, thats why all them have a TOS (Terms of service) that everyone is supposed to read (except for me) where they explain how they adapt the rules to fit their website

Avatar of mschosting
dalephilly wrote:

Chess.com never claimed that they follow the 'laws' of FIDE or USCF chess, and they don't have to.


Cry

Avatar of philidorposition

What you (most probably) deliberately try not to understand is, that the actual time that user has isn't 79 seconds, but 60, and the 19 seconds is lost through lag. Lag adjustment is simply trying to make things fair, so that every user has those 60 seconds of thinking. It's not a psychopathic conspiracy especially engineered for us poor chess.com users.

Avatar of AlexdelCarmen
yeres30 wrote:
dalephilly wrote:

Chess.com never claimed that they follow the 'laws' of FIDE or USCF chess, and they don't have to.


Never directly claim to follow FIDE OR USCF, you are correct.

Except that what Chess.Com is offering is a product called "Live Chess". 

What do you think the purpose is of that "DRAW" button on your screen when you play Live Chess? 

Of that "RESIGN" button on your screen? 

Those are buttons that try to simulate in the internet an OTB speed game under FIDE or USCF rules.

Is anyone here willing to play a 5/0 game where one gets only 5 minutes while the opponent gets 6 minutes?

Is anyone here willing to play a 1/0 game where one is given 60 seconds while the opponent gets 79 seconds? 

It is tough enough losing precious seconds from a temporary disconnection without having to contend with Chess.Com giving the opponent extra seconds by as much as 19 seconds for every occurrence of a temporary disconnection.


I do, i think it would be fun.  Thing is that weather you liek ir or not, Live chess tends to lag because:

1.  Internet connections sometimes tend to suck,

2. The server is filled up with people.

3. Ther eis an issue with the app (in the end the thing is kinda free you know, so it does not has to be perfect)

Finally, when you see the clock being "added" some time in reality what happened is:

 

You made your move, the move was sent to the server and from the server it was sent to your opponent (it is moreover like that but I hate technical details) in some point between the server and the move, lag appeared and ruine dthe day, then your opponent received the move and he make his move when he had 1.40 secs, but the move had to go all the way back to you so you could see it, in the meantime, you saw his clock hit 1.20 secs, while he was still at 1.40, and teh fact that a pop up error stating that you have been disconnected should be able to tell you enough... you are DISCONNECTED, no longer on the server, so whatever you are viewing behind that error, or ahppened just before... is long passed, and yes, it is kind of unfair, but I have two practic solutions:

1. Deal with it (I am a grown boy so I think I can... )

2. get out of my chair and play OTB where the only Lag I experience is the brains of my opponent malfunctioning and they game afalling dead.

Avatar of mschosting
yeres30 wrote:
dalephilly wrote:

Chess.com never claimed that they follow the 'laws' of FIDE or USCF chess, and they don't have to.


Never directly claim to follow FIDE OR USCF, you are correct.

Except that what Chess.Com is offering is a product called "Live Chess". 

What do you think the purpose is of that "DRAW" button on your screen when you play Live Chess? 

Of that "RESIGN" button on your screen? 

Those are buttons that try to simulate in the internet an OTB speed game under FIDE or USCF rules.

Is anyone here willing to play a 5/0 game where one gets only 5 minutes while the opponent gets 6 minutes?

Is anyone here willing to play a 1/0 game where one is given 60 seconds while the opponent gets 79 seconds? 

It is tough enough losing precious seconds from a temporary disconnection without having to contend with Chess.Com giving the opponent extra seconds by as much as 19 seconds for every occurrence of a temporary disconnection.

The time on an opponent's clock on restart after reconnection is established from a temporary disconnection should remain the same as that when the opponent's clock was stopped.


I understand your frustration, but they don't give anything. those extra seconds you think they gain is due to the difference on your connection speed, when you see your piece moving its not the same time he sees it, and those seconds is the estimated time your opponent lost. otherwise it would be unfair for him right?

Avatar of mschosting
yeres30 wrote:
philidor_position wrote:

What you (most probably) deliberately try not to understand is, that the actual time that user has isn't 79 seconds, but 60, and the 19 seconds is lost through lag. Lag adjustment is simply trying to make things fair, so that every user has those 60 seconds of thinking. It's not a psychopathic conspiracy especially engineered for us poor chess.com users.


More generalities. I am sure you can not explain in detail how and why a clock stopped at 1.21 is restarted at 1.40 after reconnection is established from a temporary disconnection.


The 1.21 you see is generated on your local machine not on the server.

Avatar of mschosting
yeres30 wrote:
mschosting wrote:
The 1.21 you see is generated on your local machine not on the server.

Wrong.

When it was Black's turn to make his 9th move, his clock may have counted down to 0.59 on White's machine.

However, after Black completed his move, the server clock for Black was 1.21 which the server transmits to White's machine.

So the time of 0.59 is replaced with 1.21 by the server.

It is now White's turn. His clock on his machine shows 1.32 and it counts down to 1.23 after White makes his 10th move.

It is understandable that when reconnection is established, the server changes the time on White's screen from 1.23 to 1.00 to adjust for time consumed from the disconnection.

Remember, the server stopped Black's clock after Black's 9th move at 1.21

What is not acceptable is Black's time of 1.21 on the server when Black's time was stopped to be changed to 1.40 when restarted after reconnection is established from a temporary disconnection.


I got lost somewhere between the 8th and 9th move,you right the rest of the world is wrong the only suggestion I see fit is to write down your concerns and send them to mr.Kirsan Ilyumzhinov here: http://www.fide.com/index.php

Avatar of mschosting

At move 9 on your LOCAL machine it said your opponent had 1.21 to play. But after the disconnection, the server had to check the latency of the line and found out that your opponent got robed in 20 seconds against you so he gave him the extra time

How JAVA works:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/program.htm

Avatar of mschosting
yeres30 wrote:
mschosting wrote:

At move 9 on your LOCAL machine it said your opponent had 1.21 to play. But after the disconnection, the server had to check the latency of the line and found out that your opponent got robed in 20 seconds against you so he gave him the extra time

How JAVA works:

http://www.howstuffworks.com/program.htm


False. Try again.


what part you think its false?

Avatar of mschosting

yeres the 1.21 you see is on your side. You do not see either the server side if there is any or your opponent side. And even if it shows 1.21 on your screen it dows not mean that 1.21 was the information transmited to the server, or even if any time at all was sent by your computer, maybe you were lagging to.