Positional Puzzles

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the forum was titled positional puzzle. to me this title is misleading! when you say puzzle, most player will look for force combination to win material if not check mate! if your goal is to win a good position after a series of move, i dont believe it is a puzzle. because everybody will have a different approach to a given position and what will matter to them is their own opinion about the position each individual wanted to achieve, irregardless of what may be the best line according to tactical situation on the board. because positional player tend to shun tactical complexities, they become very subjective on a particular strategy, and sometimes diregard objectivity in their thought process  just to satisfy their inclination.

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JG27Pyth wrote:
"... I like Princejher's approach to the position though I don't think his move was best. The strongest continuation IMO was h4."

 


i also recommended h4 in my analysis post#12.

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Matalino wrote:

In POST #4, Instead of 10.Qxe6+ Rd6 11.Qxf5  - it is mate in 1 with 10.Qc7# checkmate


your comment and correction to my line is highly appreciated. i totally miss that move. (lol)

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princejher wrote:
JG27Pyth wrote:
"... I like Princejher's approach to the position though I don't think his move was best. The strongest continuation IMO was h4."

 


i also recommended h4 in my analysis post#12.


Perhaps I'm misreading, but it appears to me to be you recommend there: Bxf5 exf5 e6 etc. The improvement I'm referring to is Bxf5 exf5 h4.... I suppose this was unclear in my original post.

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JG27Pyth wrote:

But I am reasonable and I'm open to education... let's move on to the second 1917 diagram (NOT the second puzzle diagram on the page): What move is it you believe is strong in the second diagram? IMO White could approach that position more than one way, and he has a number of modestly attractive candidates. I don't see a stand out.


There is a standout, and one clearly best way to approach the position. Give me your "analysis" of the position's features, plans for both sides etc.. (not a long variation like daxelson has given. This is an Endgame puzzle) So I can see how you are approaching it. If your evaluations are questionable, once I've pointed you in the direction of the right thought process to be following you should then find the move quite easily..

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nuclearturkey wrote:
JG27Pyth wrote:

But I am reasonable and I'm open to education... let's move on to the second 1917 diagram (NOT the second puzzle diagram on the page): What move is it you believe is strong in the second diagram? IMO White could approach that position more than one way, and he has a number of modestly attractive candidates. I don't see a stand out.


There is a standout, and one clearly best way to approach the position. Give me your "analysis" of the position's features, plans for both sides etc.. (not a long variation like daxelson has given. This is an Endgame puzzle) So I can see how you are approaching it. If your evaluations are questionable, once I've pointed you in the direction of the right thought process to be following you should then find the move quite easily..


It's a bit tough to take your pedantic manner considering this position arises from your squandering most of (or at best failing to increase) the advantage you had just a few moves earlier.

Black's plan is to infiltrate the White position via b4 (and if White is really careless, as went unnoticed in some variations analyzed earlier, even via Qxe3+... but that's not the plan) grab pawns, push his own queenside pawns, harass the White King, open a diagonal for his bishop, and generally be a pain in the ass. In summary, Black is trying to attack on the Queenside and swindle some kind of draw via perpetual check and promotion threats. It starts with b4.

White wants to minimize Black's annoying counterplay and attack on the Kingside, using his h-file and the general disarray and weakness of Black's kingside.

White's Queen needs repositioning, White's King needs repositioning, and White's N is probably better posted at least in the short term, at c2 in order to shut down Black's counterplay.

I think the key to the position is Karpovian: eliminate counterplay, continue squeezing. Can we clamp down on b4?  Yes (and defend e3 as well *coughs into hand*) Nc2. But is that too passive? Possibly... I think Queen moves that get her ready to invade the kingside are playable here too... I'm too dense to calculate the razor's edge that begins with a Queen move, but I think Qe1 is a possibility, it repositions the Queen for a check-invasion on the h-file while eyeing the b4 square, and it leaves the N well posted. Decisions, decisions.  An aggressive sharp calculator probably makes the Qe1 move here but I just don't calculate that well! I'd play Nc2, safety first although it might leave me settling for a draw... but that's the fault of having simplified instead of really invading along the h-file as I had the chance to earlier Tongue outWink  ...oh, and h4... man I still want to play h4... oh well... 

Avatar of nuclearturkey
JG27Pyth wrote:
nuclearturkey wrote:
JG27Pyth wrote:

But I am reasonable and I'm open to education... let's move on to the second 1917 diagram (NOT the second puzzle diagram on the page): What move is it you believe is strong in the second diagram? IMO White could approach that position more than one way, and he has a number of modestly attractive candidates. I don't see a stand out.


There is a standout, and one clearly best way to approach the position. Give me your "analysis" of the position's features, plans for both sides etc.. (not a long variation like daxelson has given. This is an Endgame puzzle) So I can see how you are approaching it. If your evaluations are questionable, once I've pointed you in the direction of the right thought process to be following you should then find the move quite easily..


It's a bit tough to take your pedantic manner considering this position arises from your squandering most of (or at best failing to increase) the advantage you had just a few moves earlier.

Black's plan is to infiltrate the White position via b4 (and if White is really careless, as went unnoticed in some variations analyzed earlier, even via Qxe3+... but that's not the plan) grab pawns, push his own queenside pawns, harass the White King, open a diagonal for his bishop, and generally be a pain in the ass. In summary, Black is trying to attack on the Queenside and swindle some kind of draw via perpetual check and promotion threats. It starts with b4.

White wants to minimize Black's annoying counterplay and attack on the Kingside, using his h-file and the general disarray and weakness of Black's kingside.

White's Queen needs repositioning, White's King needs repositioning, and White's N is probably better posted at least in the short term, at c2 in order to shut down Black's counterplay.

I think the key to the position is Karpovian: eliminate counterplay, continue squeezing. Can we clamp down on b4?  Yes (and defend e3 as well *coughs into hand*) Nc2. But is that too passive? Possibly... I think Queen moves that get her ready to invade the kingside are playable here too... I'm too dense to calculate the razor's edge that begins with a Queen move, but I think Qe1 is a possibility, it repositions the Queen for a check-invasion on the h-file while eyeing the b4 square, and it leaves the N well posted. Decisions, decisions.  An aggressive sharp calculator probably makes the Qe1 move here but I just don't calculate that well! I'd play Nc2, safety first although it might leave me settling for a draw... but that's the fault of having simplified instead of really invading along the h-file as I had the chance to earlier   ...oh, and h4... man I still want to play h4... oh well... 


I'll ignore your unfounded slight and address only the chess stuff.

1. About Nc2, although you're not completely sure, yes that is simply the best move because it on c2 it simply stops dead any thoughts Black could have had about releasing his position. White is not "minimizing" Black's counter-play, he is basically stopping it completely. From there on White can really take all the time he wants in slowly improving his position on the King Side until Black's inevitable demise, while Black is left with nothing to do but shuffle around aimlessly. 

2. I don't care if you wine about what I'm going to say next, you're going to just have to deal with it: Although you would have probably played the position correctly if it was a game, there is still room for improvement in your thought process. Surprised This is an Endgame we're in here where there's no room for "sharp calculation" even if that is one's "style" of play in the Middlegame. Much like the 1st puzzle, you shouldn't even be entertaining the thought of taking even the minutest risk in such a 100% won position. 

3. As I've said I had not blown or reduced my advantage which I had in the middlegame, but simply (and most reliably and effectively) converted it into a won Endgame. If you would be worried about a draw in that position it shows more evidence that your Endgame needs some work.

I'll provide the full game with annotations shortly.

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I haven't got time for any annotations now. I've already fully annotated it on this site before though. I think it was you who said you appreciated my efforts JG27Pyth.

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nuclearturkey wrote:

I haven't got time for any annotations now. I've already fully annotated it on this site before though. I think it was you who said you appreciated my efforts JG27Pyth.


It probably was me... and I appreciate the positional puzzles, they make me think, thanks for posting them... what I don't really appreciate is the snooty tone, though.

The substance of the dispute is: safe vs. sharp ... I'm all for maximizing winning chances. I just don't see the position, after Nc2, as such an easy win for White. If you do, bully for you, I guess you play it the way you did. I would much rather play from the earlier position after Bxf5 exf5 h4! than from the second diagram after Nc2. I understand how to convert that earlier position to win better. A weakness in my endgame? Well, I've got weaknesses all over, I'm sure that's one of them! I'll study your continuation after Nc2, but do yourself a favor and play it against a strong engine and see what kind of wrenches a tactical-genius Super GM like Rybka or Toga II finds to throw into the gears of your technique from there. I'll do the same.

Oh, but one point I think you're dead wrong on is: This is an Endgame we're in here where there's no room for "sharp calculation" even if that is one's "style" of play in the Middlegame

What? The endgame is every bit as sharply calculated as the middlegame. Endgame calculations tend to be long, but if accurate, certain.

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JG27Pyth wrote:
nuclearturkey wrote:

I haven't got time for any annotations now. I've already fully annotated it on this site before though. I think it was you who said you appreciated my efforts JG27Pyth.


It probably was me... and I appreciate the positional puzzles, they make me think, thanks for posting them... what I don't really appreciate is the snooty tone, though.

The substance of the dispute is: safe vs. sharp ... I'm all for maximizing winning chances. I just don't see the position, after Nc2, as such an easy win for White. If you do, bully for you, I guess you play it the way you did. I would much rather play from the earlier position after Bxf5 exf5 h4! than from the second diagram after Nc2. I understand how to convert that earlier position to win better. A weakness in my endgame? Well, I've got weaknesses all over, I'm sure that's one of them! I'll study your continuation after Nc2, but do yourself a favor and play it against a strong engine and see what kind of wrenches a tactical-genius Super GM like Rybka or Toga II finds to throw into the gears of your technique from there. I'll do the same.


Well I'm not here to make friends. Next time you don't like my "tone", feel free to keep it to yourself. 

You can think that it's Ok to play for both a simple or sharp continuation from a totally dominant position based on preference if you want. I'll choose however to listen to my Fide Master Coach, Nimzowitsch and many others..

When did I say that my Endgame is anything special? Only last season I lost a technically "won" Endgame OTB against a player much weaker than myself through hanging a Rook. Given sufficient time though I imagine I'd be able to win that endgame (from the puzzle I mean) against any Engine 9 or more times out of ten. I can't see where any tactics would come from. However, I'm certain that a top engine would get more wins against most strong players from the position after h4 than after Nc2. Although both positions are great for White, any strong Master would agree there is a bit less chance of slipping up in the position after Nc2 than after h4. I would play an Engine from "my" position, but I basically can't be bothered and I don't see what I have to prove. 

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JG27Pyth wrote:
nuclearturkey wrote:

I haven't got time for any annotations now. I've already fully annotated it on this site before though. I think it was you who said you appreciated my efforts JG27Pyth.


It probably was me... and I appreciate the positional puzzles, they make me think, thanks for posting them... what I don't really appreciate is the snooty tone, though.

The substance of the dispute is: safe vs. sharp ... I'm all for maximizing winning chances. I just don't see the position, after Nc2, as such an easy win for White. If you do, bully for you, I guess you play it the way you did. I would much rather play from the earlier position after Bxf5 exf5 h4! than from the second diagram after Nc2. I understand how to convert that earlier position to win better. A weakness in my endgame? Well, I've got weaknesses all over, I'm sure that's one of them! I'll study your continuation after Nc2, but do yourself a favor and play it against a strong engine and see what kind of wrenches a tactical-genius Super GM like Rybka or Toga II finds to throw into the gears of your technique from there. I'll do the same.

Oh, but one point I think you're dead wrong on is: This is an Endgame we're in here where there's no room for "sharp calculation" even if that is one's "style" of play in the Middlegame

What? The endgame is every bit as sharply calculated as the middlegame. Endgame calculations tend to be long, but if accurate, certain.


Missed the edit. Not very often, and definitely not from that sort of position.

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"Well I'm not here to make friends. Next time you don't like my "tone", feel free to keep it to yourself."

SealedSealed & Sealed!

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Sorry to say, but you play boring chess.

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pskogli wrote:

Sorry to say, but you play boring chess.


That's probably true.

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Sometimes the boring move is the correct one!

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I only skimmed through the posts, so I might missed some moves that have already been refuted.

Here is my quick glance at the positions - there are maybe refutations to my moves and I'd be happy if someone would point them out:

1st puzzle: as it's already been said, exchanging the bishop for the knight is the best move

2nd: I would play b4, so I could attack black's backward pawn on e6 with my knight.

3rd: Bf1 to move it on longer and open diagonal, the move also attacks a6 pawn, which is easily defended, but you can put more pressure on it.

4th: I'd play Qe1 or Nc2 because black probably wants to play b4. Qe1 seems better than Nc2 to me, because you create the chance to put Q on open file and I think N is better placed where it already is than on c2.

5th: Ra1-e1 and then e4.

6th: 0-0-0 and then the same thing as in 5th puzzle, but I think it's better to play e4 first and then Rd1-e1 here.

Avatar of nuclearturkey
Paranoid-Android wrote:

I only skimmed through the posts, so I might missed some moves that have already been refuted.

Here is my quick glance at the positions - there are maybe refutations to them and I'd be happy if someone would point them out:

1st puzzle: as it's already been said, exchanging the bishop for the knight is the best move

2nd: I would play b4, so I could attack black's backward pawn on e6 with my knight.

3rd: Bf1 to move it on longer and open diagonal, the move also attacks a6 pawn, which is easily defended, but you can put even more pressure on it.

4th: I'd play Qe1 or Nc2 because black probably wants to play b4. Qe1 seems better than Nc2 to me, because you create the chance to put Q on open file and N is better placed where it already is than on c2.

5th: Ra1-e1 and then e4.

6th: 0-0-0 and then the same thing as in 5th puzzle, but I think it's better to play e4 first and then Rd1-e1 here.


2nd: You're right that d4 is the crucial square to fight for in the position. Partly because as you said soon White's Knight will be able to take up a great position there, but also there are other probably slightly more important reasons as to why it would be ideal for White to take total control over d4: If you visually take off all of the other pieces from the board, you can see that Black's pawn structure in general is very weak, particularly on g3. If his threats subside or the game gets anywhere near an Endgame he will be really struggling to stop White from taking control. Therefore in the position Black is pinning just about all of his hopes on a d4 advance at some point, which given White's uncastled King will be quite unpleasant for him! And all of Black's hopes are taken away from him by b4! attacking the main pawn controlling d4 (and as a direct consequence White's Knight can come as you said to d4, a great square)..

3rd: There are probably a few good moves in this position. Bf1 is one, I played Qc4 (it can't be kicked away by b5 as it weakens Black's position too much and can then be taken advantage of by a4 at some point). The purpose of the puzzle was to recognize the need to attack the 2nd weakness on a3, not to immediately win it through some tactic, but to 1st reduce the activity of Black's pieces as much as possible, which is the 1st step to gaining a decisive advantage from that type of position, in this case his Knight is forced to remain passive tied to the defense of a6. I'm sure you understood all that anyway..

I'll comment on the rest later.

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Oh, and Radiohead FTW!