Puzzles needed for tactics trainer

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Avatar of EndgameStudent

edvinj

http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=16869364

There were many things I had to try to change such as the second move ambiguity. By moving the rook on f1, Nf6 was no longer an alternative winning second move. 

64th puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=235977 

65th puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=322589 


Avatar of chapablanca2000

Katonas,

First off, let me say that I can appreciate the amount of effort that must be involved in managing the Tactics Trainer. Addressing all the submissions in this thread alone must be exhausting. Thanks for your comments.

But I have a few comments of my own. This thread could spawn another forum on the nature of the Tactics Trainer, the definition of tactics, and the use of computers in analysis. 

I don't have easy access to an engine, but I was able to get Fritz to look at the position after 1. Ra2. It found 1....Rxg2 after a short time (but not immediately), with the only evaluation as mate in 9. I think the next strongest move was +6 or +4, something like that. So even though ..Rxg2 is a forced mate, 1...Qe7 is still considered a winning move? I think most humans would at least look at the capture before the queen move, and I would not consider ...Qe7 a tactic. It takes black two or three moves (..Qe7, ...Qh4 {I assume that's the idea, although maybe Qg5 first is a finesse}, and ..Rg6) before he is even threating to execute what I would call a tactic with ...Qxh2+. 

This is just my opinion, and I certainly don't mean to dictate how the TT should be managed, but it's the Tactics Trainer, not What's The Best Move. I can understand not wanting any ambiguity and avoiding complaints from the users, but Rxg2 is the tactical solution, not Qe7. Before computers, a lot of tactics compilations were taken from actual games (Like the Informant series), and they had to be checked by hand (if the editors didn't just accept the notes from the titled players). I also think there is a point at which the intent of the TT becomess lost to the desire to avoid ambiguity.

For example, in the aforementioned Qe7 line, the rook lifts ..Rg6 and ...Rg5 are equivalent. It wouldn't matter to a human in an actual game which one is played. The idea is to play the queen to the h-file, lift the rook on the g-file, play Qxh2+, and then check on the h-file with the rook next move. But for the TT, one of those rook moves would have to be removed from the solution to avoid ambiguity? I think the TT should be able to accomodate such ambiguity, instead of asking submitters to accomodate the TT as it is. 

As  for removing some of the alternatives, I suppose I can put a pawn on h5 to eliminate the Qe7 line, but that seems very contrived. Why would Black play his pawn to h5 in that position? Again, it seems like we are serving the needs of the TT, rather than the other way around. The other alternatives are not as forcing as the line in the game, and the Bh3 and Bg2 line is definitely the strongest. It's part of a forced mate in 9. How much weaker do the alternatives need to be? And don't different engines give slightly different evaluations? It seems somewhat arbitrary to pick a number like +2 to separate acceptable lines from nonacceptable ones. And if it were up to me, I would stop the solution at ...Qh3. It's clearly won for Black at that point. I certainly didn't see 11 moves deep during the game. I just looked at Bf1 and Bd3, and that was good enough for both me and my opponent. And no reasonable human would sacrifice his entire army just to postpone mate for another six moves. At least, no human I would enjoy playing. 

And one final point (phew!) is that this game was played before anyone even knew what the Internet was. So there is no link to provide. 

Avatar of chapablanca2000

Just a correction: I think it was only a forced mate in 9 if white took the rook. Fritz suggested something like Ne3 instead, and it was still a +6 evaluation for Black. But again, it just seems silly to consider moves like Ne3 when they don't even save the game for White. Any human would ask "what happens on Kxg2 ?"

Avatar of EndgameStudent

Thankyou edvinj,

Black's 24th, http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=29417982

A lovely puzzle.

66th puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=467141 

Avatar of EndgameStudent

edvinj, I love this puzzle

67th puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=258863 

Unfortunately   http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=25011688 has alternavives to 54.Kf4 and so you are correct, it isn't conclusive enough. 

Thankyou for posting your submissions in such a thoughtful way, it saved me a lot of time.

Powerlevel,

68th puzzle  http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=118926 

69th puzzle  http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=281985 

Avatar of EndgameStudent

chapablanca, I'm only one of many tactics approvers, and an inexperienced one who isn't very good at tactics at that, so I'm not the one to persuade when it comes to changing things. I agree with your sentiments, indeed I feel saddened everytime an ambiguous but beautiful puzzle is deleted from tactics trainer. Several approvers are deleting many wonderful but ambiguous puzzles each day, but I believe this is necessary. I do know that I've been very annoyed at times when playing tactics trainer after losing 16 points for playing the wrong winning move. In this particular thread, I'm looking for puzzles that are beautiful, educational, and unambiguous. 

Avatar of edvinj

Thanks Katonas.

About the second game, http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=16869364

I think there was an option to start one move earlier than in the two problems you added, and then there would have been two unambigious moves as well. But the modified problems are good too.

Avatar of EndgameStudent

edvinj, unfortunately I don't think it would be conclusive enough.

I tried starting one move earlier in the modified approved problem but for some reason it doesn't work.

Avatar of EndgameStudent

NajdorfDefense

Nice idea to post in a different colour. It made your puzzles easier to find.

 

Shelten v Rimple  : unfortunately when the pawn promotes on b8 it has a choice which makes the puzzle ambiguous.

 

Newman v : unfortunately according to Houdini 2.a7 +6 was as good as 2.Bd3 +6. There are alternative moves later on as well 

 

A few moves later puzzle : 2a7? drawing line puzzle, unfortunately 3…g4 draws as well as 3…Kxa7. However, 

I'm not sure this is conclusive enough but could be used by providing a link to its conclusive continuation puzzle

71st puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=66812

70th puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=356545 


 
Avatar of edvinj

OK, I see your point. I couldn't find any good ways to change it from the initial starting move either.

Thanks for adding the problems. It will be interesting to see what ratings they get.

Avatar of EndgameStudent

NajdorfDefense,

black17th puzzle: unfortunately 1 move problems are no longer being added to tactics trainer for a variety of reasons.

However with a bit of tweaking there is a nice perpetual problem. I had to remove the c8 bishop to prevent an alternative move attacking the queen. 

72nd puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=239507 

Avatar of LegoPirate

Is this one good? (I'm in NY, so I can get computer analysis from chess.com, but I can't analyze other moves with a engine.)

Link to the game: http://www.chess.com/livechess/game.html?id=327139626

Avatar of shoopi

Heya everyone,

Wow, two big tests later, and it seems like a lot of action was going on here! Nice to see all of these updates and fantastic tactics.

Here's my next contribution, I also added an easy sideline with it. The position is altered from one of my games, as usual.

 

And an easy sideline from one of the variations:
 
Avatar of jbzdarkid
[COMMENT DELETED]
Avatar of EndgameStudent

LegoPirate, thankyou for a lovely puzzle. It needed only a minor easy change (removing the a pawn) to prevent a4 as an alternative advantageous move.

74th puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=453473 

Avatar of EndgameStudent

Shoopi, no kidding about taking a while. I thought only +0.4 compared to 0 for the next best move, went to the toilet whilst thinking what wording to use to reject the puzzle, and on returning discovered Rdg1 +13 with the next best move Qg5=.  c5! made me feel queasy and inadequate. 

76th puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=104346

Because only very high rated puzzle solvers will be attempting this puzzle, they will be able to understand the continations quite easily (with your annotations), otherwise the problem wouldn’t be conclusive enough. 

75th puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=253765

is your easy sideline. I have put a link to the impossible so it is seen by others rather than just the gods.

 

100%, top of the class for your diagrams, starting with the computer move, and providing nice explanations in the text so I could just copy and paste everything into tactics trainer quickly. Thankyou for saving me so much time. 

 

NajdorfDefense, your last puzzle has spawned another

73rd puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=298463

 
Avatar of EndgameStudent

hessmaster, puzzle1 has to start later to avoid ambiguity. 

77th puzzle http://www.chess.com/tactics/server.html?id=342353 

Avatar of azziralc
Avatar of azziralc

Now, let's reverse it.



Avatar of azziralc

do you approve this? Thanks

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