Covid-19 Discussion (moderated)

Regarding the effectiveness of 'third booster shots' against Omicron -
if they're not found to be 'effective' here and there -
would that mean one shouldn't get the booster?
It doesn't follow.  For one - there's the other variants.
For two - spreading the disease.  

There's a terrible Disinformation effort out there.
For example - trying to argue that if more vaccinated than unvaccinated 'got the disease' in a certain sample area by pure numbers instead of percentage - then the vaccinations 'didn't work'.
That is one of the more Crass disinformation attempts. 
They've distorted the math.  Egregiously. 
Do they even believe their own nonsense ?

Plus - they've left out the incidence of hospitalization/death from their information.  Also.
Apparently Mercola often believes his own nonsense.
But then changes his mind back and forth about it. 
As opposed to 'lying'.  

Maybe I'm just not the right person to argue about this.

But one more thing what do you have to say about side-effects?

But one more thing what do you have to say about side-effects?
I'm logged on briefly - so I'll accept that question.
People have to be careful - very careful - about statistics thrown around.

Authorities will tell 'you' there's a very miniscule chance of 'complications' from vaccinations.
'Your' doctor will tell 'you' to get vaccinated.  That its 'okay'.
He must.  Has to.  Is obliged.  Its something like 'current ethics'.

But the great majority of physicians are Not allergists !!
And the very low complication rate that is quoted for vaxx is for the entire population ! ...

What about for elderly seniors over 75 ?
Or for seniors 65 and over ?
What about for senior people who are infirm?  Bed bound.  Physically dependent in facilities?
What about for other people sick with something?  Weak. Frail.  What's the complication rate there?  And how severe are the reactions?
Then: how about the complication rates for people with histories of severe allergies?  Severe reactions to injections?  Severe reactions to flu and other vaccines?
How about That ??

Try this out - if 'you' have a severe enough reaction to your first vaccination - maybe the authorities in some situations will refuse to give you a second vaxx for later on ?
And they should.  Refuse.  Do they want to Kill you ?

How about - that's why they make you wait for 20 minutes - after being vaxxed ?
They want to see if you have a big reaction.
Two reasons:
1) You might need Immediate Emergency Medical Attention !!
2) They sure as could be don't want to try That again !!

Likely to tell you:  Don't get another Covid vaxx.
Wear your mask.  Social distance and use commonsense.
Maybe - here's a pamphlet on how viruses operate.  On people.
They'll probably want to check up on you - or keep you overnight in a hospital.

How about - all of that is 'in play or in the cards' when you go and get a vaxx?
In every jurisdiction?  Every jurisdiction in the world could be different.

2/3 of the hospitalized peoples were not vaccinated and because of them a lot of peoples cannot be treated for cancer etc etc...and they cost tens of millions of dollars just because they decided not to get any vaccine...and many of them did die because of their fear....

That is why there were a lot of pressure on them with the passport that you needed to go in many places....

No vaccine are 100% safe and it's always a trade off...eating processed food with a lot of artificial color and additive and too much sugar and salt and nitrate bad fat and too much sugar in drinks are not safe and most still do it daily....just the pollution in the air kill a lot of peoples every year...

Vaccine are a lot safer than what most peoples eat and drink daily for all of their life.....

It is true they will tell you there is a minuscule risk about side-effects, but 0.025% on a population of 69M people is still thousands of people.

I agree with the point about older people though, as shown in that table I posted people over 60 catching COVID can be dangerous (including people with comorbidities).

I know someone who almost died after a shot, and was recommended to take another dose, for the point you mentioned after that.

Vaccines in general yes, but this vaccine is not yet totally approved, was authorized for emergency use and its completion study date is in may of 2023. 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/specific-groups/allergies.html

Now there's some info about people who had some bad reactions to first vaccination.

If you're penicillin allergic - should you tell the authorities ?
I say yes.  Call the authorities on the phone before going in for your vaccination.  
Remember - a lot of people haven't been vaccinated At All yet.

They'll probably tell you 'no problem' if you're penicillin allergic.
And say 'come on in'.  Tell them anyway.  
Tell them - even if you've already had some vaxx before.
Tell them - if you've had allergies to flu shots.
Suggestion:  tell them on the phone.  Not when you go in.  

I got hits on the net right away - when I looked up allergic reactions to Covid vaxx.  
Including CDC hits.   Center for Disease Control in Atlanta Georgia.
A site mentioned '15 minutes'.
That's how long the observation is - in some jurisdictions - after they vaxx you.
Vaxx isn't a free pass.  Its a measure - greatly reducing the chances that you'll be infected or hospitalized or damaged or dead from Covid -and reducing the chances you'll spread it.

That last one gets a lot of challenges..
Its been said that 'viral load' is at the same level among the vaccinated.
Some way of interpreting the statistics perhaps.
Try logic for a second ...
if you're thoroughly vaccinated - how likely is it that the virus is going to survive in your system very long ?
Vaccination is to stimulate your immune system - which is the Only Thing that can save you from Covid.
If your immune system doesn't win - then you lose.  Its over.
Simple as that.  
So if vaccination helps your immune system get a big head start in killing Covid viruses inside you - what does that say about the virus suriving in your system for any length of time so that you spread it?

Any problems 'connecting the dots' there ?   
Suggesting that vaccination doesn't slow the spread of the disease - seems like an awful thing to say - to me.
Its like saying 'masks don't work'.
A lot of the same people doing that apparently bitterly complain about the lockdowns and mandates that they have made more necessary by helping the virus.  
Why do I say ?  Well for one thing I"ve seen it on the site.

   post 3427.....yeah, I saw something about that mosquitoe thing...                                                   https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/2-billion-genetically-modified-mosquitos-205200126.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall  

It has been tested right now on:

Over a year into the biggest vaccination campaign in history, more than 10.9 billion doses have been administered across 184 countries, according to data collected by Bloomberg. The latest rate was roughly 21.2 million doses a day.

In the U.S., 556 million doses have been given so far. During the last week, shots were administered at an average rate of 96,636 doses a day.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

This may have been said earlier:
but world deaths from Covid are now over 6 million - and that's only the reported deaths.
Reported deaths from Covid in the USA are now very close to the one million mark.   
Over 993,000 according to the coronavirus worldometer.

The cumulative death rate seems to be dropping.
It was running around 4% at the beginning.
Now it seems to be under 2% worldwide.
That's because of vaccination apparently.  
But that's cumulative.  Not the current death rate.
Which could be much lower. 
Again - because of worldwide vaccinations.
With the percentage of people vaccinated greatly increased now -
and the percentage of people with multiple vaccinations each - somewhat behind that - but also increasing. 

And this:
Latest CDC Data: Unvaccinated Adults 97 Times More Likely to Die from COVID-19 Than Boosted Adults
from here: 
 https://www.factcheck.org/2022/02/scicheck-latest-cdc-data-unvaccinated-adults-97-times-more-likely-to-die-from-covid-19-than-boosted-adults/

97 times???  I didn't know it was that lopsided.
I wonder what that means about the death rate among unvaccinated - as a percentage of unvaccinated cases of getting Covid?
I couldn't find that particular %.  Yet.
97 Times as likely to die from Covid ...   !!

There's a clause of non-responsibility in case of side-effects.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7521148/coronavirus-vaccine-safety-liability-government-anand-pfizer/

They may say it's normal but it makes it much harder to speak with the authorities unlike what you're saying here.

I can understand based on what you're saying that you're for the mandates? 

Also I see you're talking about immunity, but the immunity acquired after an infection is much more efficient than vaccine immunity. Proof, if we needed a booster every few months, it means that the immunity acquired is not quite enough. Omicron is not as dangerous so it's a good chance to be immune against Covid without risking side-effects. (I don't think I need to provide a link here those are well-known facts)

Deaths are decreasing? Sure, we can partially give credit to the vaccines, but it's also due to the fact that omicron isn't as deadly.

@AnneLiz

Vaccinating a lot of people and noticing little side effects is not enough.

Thousands of people out of 65M is a lot.

The completion of the study date is planned for 2023 because we need to take a look at the mid-term and long-term side-effects which we are yet to know. 

"I can understand based on what you're saying that you're for the mandates? "
Its not about me.  That's all you could consider ?
People who are anti-mask and anti-vaxx and anti-mandate - then complain about the mandates and lockdowns that have become more intensely necessary because of their campaigns to interfere with the life-protecting measures.
In a country like Australia - they've been trying very hard to fight Covid.
Government and private sector and citizens.
Result :  their deaths per million from Covid are about one twentieth the deaths per million of the USA.
I don't want to get into US - Australian political discussions -
my point is that when there are campaigns against masks and vaccinations and other lifesaving measures - then results are going to be poorer - while the campaigners then complain about the lockdowns and mandates they have made more intensely necessary by so campaigning.

"Also I see you're talking about immunity, but the immunity acquired after an infection is much more efficient than vaccine immunity"
So what?  That doesn't mean vaccination isn't critical and isn't making a tremendous difference.
That's like saying water is wet - so don't wear a life preserver.  
Vaccination. 
There might be 30 million dead now - if there hadn't been vaccination. 

"Immunity"?   Immunity is a buzz word in the context of Covid.
Its an attempt to make digital A or B out of a very very scalar thing.

Again - reminder:  Unvaccinated upon getting Covid - are 97 times as likely to die of that Covid as those who are fully vaccinated.  
97 times.   That's 9,700 % more likely to die.
With or without plays on the semantics of 'immunity'.  

But the masks and the lockdowns aren't experimental products they're forcing us to inject into our bodies. You say saving our lives but shouldn't anybody be able to choose about whether they want to risk side-effects (nobody can deny they're present), or getting infected while not being vaccinated? You mean people don't want to 'save their lives' and they want to die just to not take the shot because of some belief they have?

" they're forcing us"
I think you already conceded that vaccination isn't compulsory for citizens in most countries.
You're suggesting there's a 'conspiracy'?
That 'they' are forcing 'us' to vaccinate ?
That 'us' - sounds like 'we' used previously.

Maybe I'm going to look up how many countries have actually made vaccination compulsory ...

We're repeating the same stuff over and over only to hit the wall.

What I'm saying is that while vaccines do reduce dangerous cases and decrease deaths like you're saying, some people aren't as vulnerable from COVID as others and no matter what everyone should have the choice on what they want to inject into their bodies, and this not being at the cost of one's job or freedom.

Vaccine immunity is 'critical' but it's temporary and not quite a guarantee of survival + adds risks of side effects.

Look there's no conspiracy theory. It's not that deep. It's just that authorities in countries like Canada, Israel, France, some states in the US, are applying vaccine mandates on their citizens.

Us refers to the citizens, it's quite clear I think, and they: the authorities.

It's not compulsory for citizens in most countries, but you just said you were for the vaccine mandates and that's what we're arguing on.

Here's the map.   
https://www.statista.com/chart/25326/obligatory-vaccination-against-covid-19/
The percentage of area looks Tiny - of countries where vaccination is mandatory.
The biggest such country in population is Indonesia - 
there's over 220 countries in the world.  11 have apparently made vaccination compulsory.  
There's probably a way to copy the map to this forum.

Indonesia has mandatory vaccination.  Maybe they want to save about 10 million people ...   

I don't know where you're getting this from. The truckers movement was a movement against vaccine mandates in Canada.

Maybe we're talking about a different thing. There are countries that indirectly compel their citizens to get the shot when they do the vaccine passports thing, like in Canada, France, you know you need a PCR test twice a week if you're not vaccinated otherwise you can't leave your house and things like that.