Debating over debate itself (only pure debate related please)

I'm opening this thread after an other thread got closed. Part by my fault btw. Mea culpa. Not only by my fault tho. I still consider it like a fail of mine, and seek for improvement.

The real and only topic of this thread, is what is wrong and what is right, and what is "in between" when we debate, as in, what are the means and methods we should and should not use, when our goal is not to just look smarter, or "win", but actually to convince the other(s) our opinion or view is better. Or possibly let them convince us.

I do believe, that direct attacks, targetting  shame and embarrassement in the "opponent" is counter producive: who would want to join people who despise them? (It doesn't mean I never do the mistake...)

I also do believe, that lazy "two lines remarks" over a whole constructed paragraph is not going to help anyone to get closer to the truth, if there is any truth in the debated topic, especially if the said lines are loaded with sarcasm and mockery. It only show, in my opinion, an attitude similar to someone watching some TV show they don't like, and not changing channel nonetheless, when they don't realize the debate is not a show for them to watch, but something intended to confront ideas, and perhaps to get some of us convinced of a better or truer idea than the one they supported so far.

When I experienced or witnessed, a change of opinion in me or someone else, it was just ALWAYS out of a friendly debate or discussion. I'm in my wrong? Please, tell me how and why until I change my mind, and if you're correct, and correctly exposes and sustains your point of view, chances are I'll question mine, and change it toward yours: true story. (just don't expect it to happen over two or three turns of dialog) But it won't work if your point starts by "Your English is bad!" or "But you're such a [insert bad name here] since you believe that".

One thing is sure: if our only concern is to see "wrong" people get punished, mocked, put to shame, and whatmore, it's not them (regardless of their opinion) who has then a problem, it's us. Our only concern in a debate, should be to see the truth (if any, again) prevail, if in them or in us. And that can't be achieved by making the said truth unattractive for being the mark of wicked mockers and bashers.

Fell free to contribute and show your real concern for an improvement in people's ideas and mentality.

Please, don't introduce a debate over anything else than the right (or wrong) way to debate, thank you.

Logical arguments don't win debates if the audience has already made up its mind.

Might be true, but still: what audience when it's not a real life debate, but a debate online where everybody can participate and no one is any rush to write a clumsy reply or point? (like it could be a reason one hesitates to participe in a real life debate, when they dread to be clumsy and look or sound ridiculous, for an example).

And an other thing is: logical argument worked quite a few times with me, even if not instantaneously, and I changed my mind out of these. BUT, it's also because these logical arguments were exposed to me, by people who showed friendly enough to me. As in, these logical arguments, were not "thrown at my face" in a cold nor hostile way. Because when people did so, I turned away from them, not interrested in becoming in any way like them...

Not only I don't see how I would be the only one on Earth to be reachable by logical arguments, even when my mind is made up already, but also, I've met a bunch of persons in my life, that had that capacity to look at things with a neutral eye (as in, setting passion aside for the moment, for knowing this is the only way to have a chance to find out anything really true), and all what goes with it.

I'm sorry. Please let me know what part is wrongly written, and I'll try to correct and explain it.

Maybe yes, my written speech is tediously written, and confusing to some for the reason, like I care too much for expandable details.

I'll need you to be more precise and specific, or I have got zero chance to do it...

Awwww... I suspected you to only... I mean, I was streetwise like so sure you were only, cynically, trolling me. Shame on me, right? Don't worry, you can still make it and come back if you only wish it for the good. Perhaps we should meet once, and have a fight club session? And drink beer after it? And before it? And while it's going on? Would be so cool. I can't believe Eastern Scottland guys are such pussies, you'll help me out about that, rite?

[side note: I'm not actually insulting that guy, it's all bad street guys jokes intended, which is way less offensive than a "silent treatment", for an example.]

I did not think it was anyone's fault except the heavy handed approach to policing the forums. So someone calls someone else stupid? Well run to the hills Ma Baker the Feds are coming!  Is that really any reason to lock down an entire thread because of two or three posts with mild insults?  That was the injustice here!  Once again an excellent and interesting topic locked down and delivered with a moral denunciation in the most condescending manner possible against those who had contributed .  There is no room for interesting debate here, discuss drivel like 'Whats the best reply to 1.d4?' all you like, or 'Is the Caro Kann better than the French defence?' or 'Is Magnus Calrsen's hair curly for a reason?', but don't dare attempt some mature and meaningful debate they simply cannot handle it.

"The Great Debaters"

A drama based on the true story of Melvin B. Tolson, a professor at Wiley College Texas. In 1935, he inspired students to form the school's first debate team, which went on to challenge Harvard in the national championship.

True debate is challanging, informative and test one's ability to be open minded.

To be honest, there is little to no debate in these forums.

It's all about insults and mud-slinging. "I'm smarter.. you're  stupid" is the norm for the day.

Err..; what's a "challanging" again? Perhaps you meant "challenging". Cos, mindya, "challanging" sounds much like "channelling" as in a new age BS stuf mixed with angels stufff? Arya sure to be FRENCH???

C'mon, let me feed you with multiples fffffsssssake and such omaaaaawwwwwwgaaaaawwwwdddhescheatinonmayagin stuff

Moderators are volunteers. They have no formal training. One day they wake up and decide they want to "help", but in reality we all know there exists other complex or simple reasons. 

They wake up each day, put on their pants one leg at a time. Sometimes they stumble and fall. Too often subjective favoritism is displayed, but don't expect anything different from regular members who one day decide to volunteer. 

The OP has brilliantly made my point.

And here we thought "debate" was the topic when in fact he's simply itching at the trigger to insult anyone.

The OP's opening statement:

I do believe, that direct attacks, targetting  shame and embarrassement in the "opponent" is counter producive: who would want to join people who despise them? (It doesn't mean I never do the mistake...)

Anyone can play the game.

Producive ???

The word does not exist. 

Counter productive is correct.

Have a great day !

Bye ya all

Yeah, it's right.

Still I'm doubtfull bout dah "challanging" spellin. It makes yer prior postin look like yeah it's vain my whole thread.

Did I insult you? Did I insult anyone? Arya actually French? Arya a professor in any acception of the term?  Can you, edit a post instead multiple posting? And how is it, you great wise guy react to sabotage?

anyway, nobody is being much helpfull nor goodwilling. Beside Robbie, nobody showed much a will to help.