Does True Randomness Actually Exist?

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Avatar of noodles2112

Avatar of Optimissed

Just to clarify, the Wright Brothers' first controlled flight was in 1904, not 1903. Their 1903 flights weren't an improvement over previous powered flights. AI has its upside and downside. At the moment, searches treat the Wright Brothers in the same way they treat Einstein. It's necessary to force AI to come up with the right anwers. Bluntly telling AI that it's wrong often works, because it's set up to work on people's vanity and if you tell it it's wrong. it will perform deeper searches to achieve that noble aim.

Avatar of Elroch
Optimissed wrote:

Just to clarify, the Wright Brothers' first controlled flight was in 1904, not 1903.

Wrong.

Their 1903 flights weren't an improvement over previous powered flights.

Wrong - there were no previous powered heavier than air flights.

Your post consists of two factual errors (and irrelevant fluff about AI).

If you persist in claiming there were earlier powered heavier than air flights, name one!

My date was correct. On December 17 1903, the first powered heavier than air flight (which was 12 seconds long) occurred, and the next three such flights.

Avatar of noodles2112

then - 44 years later - the largest plane ever constructed flew briefly - One Single time!

Avatar of Optimissed

You can do your own research on it Elroch?

Avatar of noodles2112

"do your own research" ---- now where have I heard that one before !wink.png

Avatar of Elroch
Optimissed wrote:

You can do your own research on it Elroch?

Yes, not only can I, I have, and you have not provided any information to support your eccentric claims, which suggests that you have some problem "doing your own research".

Avatar of noodles2112

here is an incredible claim I heard/read -- not sure if true -

the entire Wright Brothers actual first - flight in the air -- could have been done inside Howard Hughes "the Hercules" aka "the Spruce Goose"!

and we know Howard Hughes was an eccentric

Avatar of TenGolf-TPOT
noodles2112 wrote:

here is an incredible claim I heard/read -- not sure if true -

the entire Wright Brothers actual first - flight in the air -- could have been done inside Howard Hughes "the Hercules" aka "the Spruce Goose"!

and we know Howard Hughes was an eccentric

Well of course they were 44 years apart so it couldn't. Also, I have no idea how big the space inside the Spruce Goose is.
But I made this nice visualization... yeah, the flight might have at least fit under the wing!

Avatar of MyNameIsP0TAT0
I like Hotdog
Avatar of MyNameIsP0TAT0
And Potatoy
Avatar of TenGolf-TPOT

That's so random

Avatar of MyNameIsP0TAT0
*Potatoes
Avatar of TenGolf-TPOT

But we're in the middle of some kind of debate here

Avatar of playerafar
TenGolf-TPOT wrote:

But we're in the middle of some kind of debate here

Right. Debates and discussions.
And that potato account has logged off for now.
And looking at the text going back ... doing a summary for now ...
The now-completed and basically perfect Artemis 2 mission was and is Not a fake nor a 'conspiracy' ...
and the earth moves and it moves in multiple ways and on a huge scale and speed.
-----------------------------------
but noodles mentioned about it taking a long time for hang-gliding to be developed.
In other words he made a talking point instead of his trying to frontally attack all of science (which isn't useful).
Hang-gliding could use some attention.

Avatar of TenGolf-TPOT

I've never been hang gliding

Avatar of noodles2112

In other words he made a talking point instead of trying to frontally attack all of science (which isn't useful)--

there is attacking science & then there is attacking pseudoscience playerafarhappy.png 

they are NOT -------------one & the same .....

unless one is a member of the church of Scientism !

Avatar of playerafar
TenGolf-TPOT wrote:

I've never been hang gliding

Me neither.
When I was younger I thought 'I should try that one'.
Now I'm glad I didn't.
Anyway - noodles made a talking point by bringing up hangliding instead of his anti-science - he wants to pull me into pingpong but fails as usual ... and its too late for him to take back his post about hangliding now.
-----------------
I looked up on the internet just now - as to why hang-gliding wasn't developed a long time ago.
They didn't have materials that were both strong enough and light enough.
They didn't know about airfoils. (even though birds' wings actually have an airfoil shape).
They did have kites big enough for a person to ride - but it was much too dangerous.
Later they had gliders ...
But without knowing about that airfoil shape ... plus you need propulsion for lift.
Modern hanggliders have the airfoil shape.
Which heavily involves how the leading edge is shaped.
And there's those 'wings' that water-skiiers use to fly. They inflate to an airfoil shape.
That might be the safest form of the variants.
Low speed - low altitude - over water and a boat right there.

Avatar of Optimissed

This is what Elroch should have found. The Wrights' 1903 attempts were also no more than hops. They flew a circuit in 1904.

John Stringfellow
 (1848): Achieved the first powered flight of an unmanned model using a steam engine.

Obviously heavier than air and powered

Félix du Temple
 (1874): Credited with the first powered take-off in a manned machine, but it was a "hop" from a ramp and was not sustained.

From a ramp makes it dubious as powered flight

Clément Ader
 (1890): His steam-powered Éole achieved a 50-metre hop from level ground. It is often cited as the first time a powered aircraft took off under its own power with a human, but it was uncontrolled.

This is the first powered flight with a human. "Uncontrolled" is not meaningful. It was controlled enough not to kill the pilot. In 1904 the "first" flight was not as controlled as flights are today or were 13 years later. So using the term "cotrolled" to form judgements is deliberately misleading. Why deliberate? See below.

Hiram Maxim
 (1894): Built a massive steam-powered biplane that developed enough lift to break its restraining rails, but it lacked any flight control system.
 Samuel Langley
 (1896): Successfully flew large unmanned steam-powered "Aerodromes" for over half a mile, though his manned attempt in 1903 crashed into the Potomac River. FAI | World Air Sports Federation +5
 
 Why the Wright Brothers Dominate Search ResultsThe prominence of the Wright brothers in search rankings is due to several historical and legal factors: 
Three-Axis Control: Unlike predecessors who focused on power, the Wrights solved the problem of steering (roll, pitch, and yaw). Their system remains the basis for modern aircraft control.
Documentation: The Wrights were meticulous with photography and witness testimony (e.g., the famous 1903 photo), whereas earlier claims, like those of Gustave Whitehead (1901), often lack verified proof or contemporaneous evidence.The Smithsonian Agreement: For decades, a legal contract between the Wright estate and the Smithsonian Institution required the museum to label the Wright Flyer as the "first" in exchange for being allowed to display it. This solidified the narrative in American educational materials and, subsequently, the internet. Wikipedia +4Would you like to see a comparison of the control systems used by these different pioneers?
 
Nope 
15 sites
Debunking Gustave Whitehead's Claim Of Flying First (Before The ...
Debunking Gustave Whitehead's Claim Of Flying First (Before The Wrights) ... Gustave Whitehead claimed to have made a sustained po... 
National Air and Space Museum

Note the word "debunking". A word notoriously used by people making dishonest claims themselves. It strongly indicates unfairness.

The Invention of the Airplane
6 Aug 2023 — hey kids in today's video we'll be learning about the invention of the airplane. are you ready let's. begin. back in the late 1800... 
 
Thankyou AI. Perhaps another time we can explore together the undue prominence in physics attributed to Albert Einstein. Who knows, we might discover that is also stitched up with legal agreements.

Avatar of TenGolf-TPOT

What's this supposed to say