Does True Randomness Actually Exist? ( ^&*#^%$&#% )

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Avatar of KingAxelson

Through the arts, there ya go. That's been on my mind a lot these past several years. 

Specifically crafting driftwood pieces into table top furniture. Imbedded with relic's and seared with an iron for poetrys sake. And then my crazy idea about growing plants out of the wood as well. 

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

that sounds beautiful King happy.png . and akinda grafting or no ?...interesting !

dale chihuly once said s/t abt how important it is for ppl to explore art. just looked for the quote but couldnt find it.

Avatar of Optimissed
KingAxelson wrote:

No reason to stop dancing Opti.. On the side note I can't stop thinking if that gal of yours makes a good spaghetti and salad dinner, with wine and candles to boot.

Did you ever stop to think that while you were dancing with her the rest of the clowns in that plane might have got stuck watching a movie like this one?

Hmm, it was an airplane ride.. ?

 

No, she's a friend who used to live half in England and half in Rome, before the pandemic. I have to behave because this is my wife and she's the jealous type. This is a random thread of course.

Avatar of Optimissed

So she's sitting on the wall, don't know what happened there. Just randomness, I expect, but I wanted to find out if the thing for posting pictures on Chess.com actually works, and it does! Three cheers! Please note that the terracotta camel is also the wrong way up. We have a pair of them but the other one might be behaving itself.

Avatar of Sillver1

ok : ) with some conditions of course..

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

Out to Ghostliner...happy.png...<3L

Avatar of MysteriousPigeon
Hello! I stumbled across this forum and find myself very happy to see it’s still active. I don’t have time to read all the last 8 months of posts. But is the randomness discussion still open? Or did you guys come to a conclusion? I have many thoughts on this and I’m very curious to know what has happened :)
Avatar of MysteriousPigeon
Side note bc I’m impatient for waiting for a reply: do you think we have freewill? Or has all our actions been completely determined by the universe (links into the randomness discussion.) Our minds control a lot of things manually for instance blinking and breathing. So another question I have is do we even think our own thoughts? Yes I sound crazy but what if humans were all manual. Everything is already controlled and we don’t have a conscious. Hmm deep thoughts
Avatar of Optimissed

I think they butted heads so much that they ended up in a mass headache.

Avatar of Optimissed

I'm sure we have free will. Otherwise, I don't see how evolution could cause evolution of our brains because our brains wouldn't be tested in any way, except as transmitters of sensory input. Elroch came up with a refutation of that which I thought didn't make sense, and then the conversation became random.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

Yes I sound crazy but what if humans were all manual. Everything is already controlled and we don’t have a conscious. Hmm deep thoughts

maybe were being joysticked by the dearly departed (w/ bulbous heads) ?

Avatar of MysteriousPigeon
Yes
Avatar of Elroch
Optimissed wrote:

I'm sure we have free will. Otherwise, I don't see how evolution could cause evolution of our brains because our brains wouldn't be tested in any way, except as transmitters of sensory input. Elroch came up with a refutation of that which I thought didn't make sense, and then the conversation became random.

The first necessity is to define "free will", so that these propositions are defined.

Bear in mind that not only do animal brains evolve, but so do artificial computer brains. This can be so even if they are individually deterministic (the notion is that the design of the brains gradually changes in order to improve some quantifiable measure of quality they generate by interaction with some environment with some degree of consistency.

I am not entirely sure what you are saying I have refuted. I prefer to define "free will" in a way that makes it a meaningful real-world concept (there is limited fun in defining things that don't exist).

This definition encapsulates the notion that a brain has behaviour which cannot be predicted in any way, either internally, externally or with some sort of combination of the two.  This encapsulates the meaningful part of the intuitive notion of free will. (The additional notion some have that there is some separate metaphysical entity that directs the unpredictable component of brain behaviour is not at all attractive to me). My preferred notion is identical to that used by Conway and Kochen in their (famous?) paper and (I gather) two follow-ups.

The Free Will Theorem

 

Avatar of miguel280

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHUbrDmWCBQ

Avatar of Sillver1

i like happy.png

Avatar of Optimissed

A definition of free will is quite simplistic and I imagined that it would be obvious.

The ability to make real decisions that are not the unavoidable result of prior states of the universe.

 

Avatar of Optimissed

I'm not interested in definitions of free will that try to use physics, btw. I don't accept their validity or relevance. In general, such people are only trying to impress others and their assertions can be safely ignored.

 

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

and here i thought this whole time that physics can explain e/t. even the decision-making of the mind by studying their atom arrangement...lol !!

Avatar of Optimissed

The arrangement of the atoms of my mind indicate that to be a false hope.

Avatar of Optimissed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT2D7Kp3k3c