Earth, center of the Universe..

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scotchfaster
collinsdanielp wrote:

"Too often people will jump into a multiverse or circular universe theory to explain what happened before the big bang when in reality we don't know and currently (and perhaps will always) have no way of knowing. 


Well, the multiverse explanation is the only one we have (I believe) for why single electrons, fired one at a time, show interference patterns. Maybe we'll find another explanation, but the multiverse interpretation of quantum mechanics is currently the best one we have.

You're right that we don't have any way of testing many of these theories, so they're little more than guesses. There's another theory as to the origin of our Universe that hasn't been brought up yet, which is that our "Big Bang" resulted from universe sheets (or "branes") colliding, which is discussed here in String Theory for Dummies. Or our entire Universe could be a quantum fluctuation...

Anyway I tend to think that we'll never know what's outside our Universe, simply because we are bound by its laws and cannot see out.

RevLarry

scotchfaster. I had all the same questions.  In science and religion.  Mal. 3: 10  Prove me.  Test me in this.  God is asking you to prove him. Look it up. 

 If I pray to Jesus Christ for a healing (according to his will) and the person is healed of cancer, a heredity blood problem, don't need glasses any more, I'd say the name of Jesus means something. Doctor's gave up on her.

 If Mohammad healed I'd pray to him.  But as I said once the Holy Spirit enters your life he will modify your life, character, and personality.  Teaching of any kind alone will not do that. 

 For a change look at all the christians who are not hyprocrites.  They are a majority but quiet and peaceful.

 Then there are the prophecies. No book anywhere can claim what the Bible can.  Every prophecy came true 100%. I can not predict what will happen five minutes from now.  Some prophecies have hundreds of facets all are accurate.

 Just read up on these things.  Go to a Bible book store. 

scotchfaster

This is an aside, but I had a dog once who had heartworm and was too old for treatment. He was supposed to die within a year, but lived another four. At one point he was tested for heartworm, and there was no trace of it! It was truly a miraculous recovery. I suppose if we'd been praying to Jesus at the time, we'd have believed that Jesus healed him. On another note, Lasik gave my wife 20/20 vision, and it's funny how no one prays to lasers...

But getting back to the subject: if I were ready for a religious conversion, do you believe that if I walked into a mosque or Mormon temple or whatever, I would not be converted, that I would have to walk into a Christian church? This is puzzling to me, because it seems like a lot of people are converting to those other faiths, and I don't see from the outside that one religion has more devout or spiritually satisfied followers than another. Yeah, Islam does get a bad rap, but there are over a billion Muslims and the vast majority of them are living peaceful lives like the majority of Christians, or atheists for that matter.

xml
RevLarry wrote:
 Every prophecy came true 100%

"Proof"* left as an exercise to the reader...

RevLarry

Hello xmi. Not sure what you mean.

RevLarry

scotchfaster. I don't pray for every healing I get either.  We are built for life.  Im very glad for your wife, but maybe God would have done it for free.

scotchfaster
RevLarry wrote:

scotchfaster. I don't pray for every healing I get either.  We are built for life.  Im very glad for your wife, but maybe God would have done it for free.


Heck, if God would have done it for half the price I'd have converted. It wasn't cheap! But it was pretty miraculous - she woke up the next day able to see without glasses and with hardly any pain.

I have heard the reports of God healing people, but His track record seems pretty poor compared to modern medicine. Would you pray to God to fix a broken leg or a faulty heart valve?

Here's the best thing I can say for religion: my cousin's partner passed away recently, and his belief in God and an afterlife seems very helpful for him.

AndTheLittleOneSaid

RevLarry

Testing testing My computer won't submit comments..

RevLarry

OK   God has done greater miracles then broken legs.  If one will follow the instructions and have the faith they will be healed.

 I can not talk much about the greater miracles because most people and many Christians can not even accept the simple things.

 Sometimes a minister is living in sin, but if he has a healing service people will still get healed because Jesus is bound to his word.

collinsdanielp

Nonsense. 

1.

2.

3.

4.

 

I can not believe that you are preaching this, it is endangering everyone who listens to you.  This is a great example of the senseless harm that religion can inflict on people.  Please reconsider preaching this rediculous, dangerous nonsense before one of your flock ends up in the news.

RevLarry

collinsdanielp.  What is the 1.2.3.4.?  nothing is writtin after the numbers.

ivandh

They are links to articles. Click on 'em.

RevLarry

Yes click on them, there are answers in the threads. Also Luke the apostle was a physician.

scotchfaster

Incidentally, in the last year my wife gave birth to our first child. He was born via c-section after a five day (!) labor. Sure, prayer *might* have worked, but chances are they would both be dead. A few months after that I had an operation to repair a faulty heart valve I've had since birth and which was causing my heart to enlarge. Now I don't get palpitations and the murmur is gone.

Praise modern medicine!

As far as the efficacy of prayer, do you know about the Native American rain dance? Basically, they'd do a dance that was intended to make it rain, and it ALWAYS WORKED. The reason? They'd just dance until it rained. And of course, since it worked the last time, you didn't dare risk skipping it the next time there was a drought.

Which reminds me of BF Skinner's superstitious pigeons, which explains a lot of human behavior, including prayer...

RevLarry

You like the internet?  Look up..

"healing prayer testimonies."  Was your doctor praying?  Ive been in the hospital, I took a bullet in 68.  My father in law had diabetes,  he was going to get his foot amputated at 10am. After following the instructions in the word of God, he recieved a new foot just before he went in.  He was not even involved in the prayer.  When the doctor came into his room he looked at the clip board at the foot of his bed and could not believe his eyes.  His almost fired the nurse.

 Doctors have many testimonies of supernatural healings.

scotchfaster
RevLarry wrote:

My father in law had diabetes,  he was going to get his foot amputated at 10am. After following the instructions in the word of God, he recieved a new foot just before he went in.  He was not even involved in the prayer.  When the doctor came into his room he looked at the clip board at the foot of his bed and could not believe his eyes.  His almost fired the nurse.

 Doctors have many testimonies of supernatural healings.


At first I thought this was a tangent, but now I think this gets to the core of our differences.  Reading this story, several things come to mind:

1. Maybe you're lying. I'm pretty sure you're not, but I'm sure that people have lied in the past about supernatural events (virgin births, for example), just as they lie about everything.

2. The doctor made a mistake and the foot was not that far gone.

3. This was a rare spontaneous recovery, perhaps even one that was unique in the recorded history of medicine, and yet completely natural.

4. I don't know why your father's foot recovered, and neither does anyone else. BTW, two surgeons once advised me to have my shoulder operated on, and by the time the surgery date rolled around my shoulder seemed to have healed on its own. I didn't have the operation.

5 through 999,999. Various explanations or guesses that I could make, which all seem more plausible than:

1,000,000. The Supreme Creator of the Universe, who allowed the Holocaust and slavery, who allowed my cousin David to die of brain cancer at 53, and who allowed your father to get diabetes in the first place, decided to intervene and save your father's foot.

To me, "I don't know" is so much more palatable than that last reason.

collinsdanielp

Reminds me of Hume's thoughts on miracles. 

RevLarry

I can get off this thread any time you wish. I try and answer these questions in my free book.

polydiatonic

I've determined that there is really only one question that is unanswered...