Global warming - an urgent problem requiring radical solution (no politics or religion)

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Avatar of lfPatriotGames
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

Minimizing affects of massive pandemics is very low. Why does everything have to come down to life and death? People don't have a right to say they don't want to suffer being sick? I got both covid shots and still ended up in the hospital for 2 days, probably because it had been a full year and needed a booster (still haven't gotten one but am thinking of it). Getting the Flu shot every year now too. And am totally not surprised I picked it up from South Carolina, totally inbred hicky state.

All good points. I think when people feel they aren't being heard they tend to sensationalize. Everything must be life or death. Or worse.

To me it makes a lot more sense to allow those who want to take their own action on a certain issue. And allow those who don't, to not take action. Otherwise, we end up with crazy policies like what we see in CA. At first masks were required, now they are considering legislation to BAN masks for certain people. I stopped getting flu shots about the time I turned 25 and have gotten the flu once since then. Probably co-incidence but it is interesting.

Just like climate change it's pretty hard to say this result MUST be caused by that. It's likely a confluence of factors that determines if something ends up with a bad result. So for climate change it makes no sense to "change" something that's either neutral or beneficial. For things like covid it makes no sense to force vaccinations on someone who is never going to get covid anyway.

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
mpaetz wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:

I get that local climate is experienced locally. No problem there. That's not the question.

If you are agreeing that global climate cannot be experienced locally that's a great relief. That means the global climate situations, like temperature rise, isn't anything to be concerned about, because it cannot be experienced locally. At first I was worried that global climate could be experienced locally, like global sea level rise affecting the Oregon coast. But now I feel much better because there is a consensus that those global climate situations will not have any local effect.

You are right, it's NOT a difficult point. As you said, "only local climate can be experienced locally". Got it.

That's right, you can't experience all the weather that's going on everywhere in the world right now from your home in Oregon. Currently it is 17 degrees F in San Martin, Antarctica, and 106 F in Death Valley, and 65 F with heavy rain in Denver but you won't feel any of that in Multnomah County.

Let us imagine that you lived in King's County CA instead. You would not see those weather conditions there either. You also would not feel the steady heavy winds blowing across the Pacific Ocean from South America to Indonesia for a prolonged period. Yet those winds can affect the ocean temperatures and currents, leading to less rain (and Sierra snow) in California. As a result the amount of water flowing down the California Aqueduct to irrigate your orchards will be severely reduced and you would have to choose between a disastrous harvest or getting a reasonable harvest from part of your orchards and risking severe damage or die-off for the rest of your trees.

In short, climate and weather that you cannot personally experience can still come back and bite you.

But those are local climates, not global ones. Nobody is suggesting that the local climate in Antarctica can be experienced in the locality of Multnomah County. The claim was that GLOBAL climate (not local climate) cannot be experienced locally.

So if global climate cannot be experienced locally, there is nothing to worry about.

Avatar of playerafar
Elroch wrote:

No, "varying" doesn't suffice to describe the relationship between climate change and local weather statistics. You need something more precise to refer to the frequency of events changing.

But that's for further description.
I'm talking about a starting point.
Still best to have common terminology to refer to the basics.
Basics that everybody's aware of but better to use common terminology.
Best to use the word 'varying' to start with? Is there a better word?
Because if you start with the word 'global' then those disagreeing then refer to things like 'average temperature change'. They get a foothold.
The issues of 'varying' and 'new disastrous developments' and 'regions' need to be combined and brought in early.
-------------------
general worldwide knowledge of manmade climate change disasters starts with varying news from regions - not with the science studying them.
That includes the science and scientific community too.
They also depend on the news too. Whether its news of disasters or news of measurements.
-----------------
Mecahnisms of disagreement: 'global' 'average' 'generally happens anyway' 'ice ages' and so on.
In other words those who disagree want to take 'regional' and 'varying' out of play right away.

Avatar of playerafar

Another mistake the science community might be making is to regard those disagreeing as 'all the same'. Or 'all in major categories'. Or so regarding. 'Dunning-Kreuger' and so on.
Its often a mistake in any context. 'you're all the same'. But they're not. Not all the same.

Avatar of LordBlundalot
EndgameEnthusiast2357 wrote:

I had the opposite experience, forgot for 3 years straight to get it, and in Feb 2024 got such a bad flu and secondary sinus infection needed to go to urgent care, fever was higher than when I had covid. Got the flu shot in November, and even going doordashing touching thousands of restaurant doors and apartment building entrances, only got 1 mild cold in the fall and haven't been sick since.

Another thing I found is that paxlovid seems to cure colds. Had leftover doses I couldn't finish with covid, but 3 separate times after that when I felt a bad cold coming on, I took 1-2 of the doses and it literally wiped out the cold every single time. In my past I was never able to stop getting sick when I felt even a mild cold coming on. 3 separate times over 2 years I felt like a severe cold was coming on, so I tried the pills each time, symptoms completely gone in 2 days (never got over colds that fast ever in my life, not even close), every time. (And no I wasn't fighting covid I tested myself all 3 times).

My last injection was yellow fever in about 2003. Got Covid/flu in 2021 - had to take 1/2 a day off work. Nothing since then. Adequate diet, sunlight and Vitamin D levels do help. Natural immunity is a thing.

Avatar of DiogenesDue

There's no point in engaging with posters that have been backed into a corner and are just being pedantic over exactly what was said when they clearly understand the real meaning and the intent. See: "Is Chess a Sport?" threads for another view of this type of pedantry.

"You said it was blue. It's clearly teal. Here's a swatch from the paint store..."

"It doesn't matter, blue or teal, the argument is the same."

"I don't think you understand though, you said it was blue. Are you going to admit it is not blue?"

"The argument is the same, blue or teal."

"You said blue. But it's teal. If you cannot address this discrepancy, your argument must be wrong."

"Teal is a shade of blue, arguably. It's irrelevant to the discussion, in any case."

"But it's teal. You said blue."

[...]

This is a tactic people use when they have lost an argument but want to save face by being pedantic forever. The same tactic was also used in the "melting icebergs vs. sea level rise" section of this very thread a few years ago.

Avatar of Elroch
lfPatriotGames wrote:

[snip]

So if global climate cannot be experienced locally, there is nothing to worry about.

This is brilliant. So I can book my summer holiday in Death Valley because it doesn't experience Antarctic weather, and then have a winter one at the South Pole because it doesn't experience Death Valley temperatures.

Sometimes you say such dumb things, and always stick firmly to them.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

teals (tertiary) base (primary) color is actually yellow (secondary). so ur both wrong.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

My last injection was yellow fever 

...and itsa secondary fever.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

secondary sinus infection

u mean a tertiary sinus infection.

Avatar of mpaetz
lfPatriotGames wrote:

But those are local climates, not global ones. Nobody is suggesting that the local climate in Antarctica can be experienced in the locality of Multnomah County. The claim was that GLOBAL climate (not local climate) cannot be experienced locally.

So if global climate cannot be experienced locally, there is nothing to worry about.

Incorrect. You mistake a statement of the obvious fact that no one can experience the climate all over the world from one small location to mean that change in global climate cannot affect that small location. Less precipitation in the Rocky Mountains in British Columbia and in the Cascade Range could dramatically lower the flow of water in your area and affect your ability to irrigate your land.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

...and then theres quaternary & quinary ones. like sage & khaki (think desert). but i wont take u there. thats enough for the day. i dont want u feeling overwhelmed.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

broccolis protein ??

Avatar of mpaetz

Teals are multicolored, different shades depending upon the exact species, so everyone is wrong.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

brocollis not really real. someone came along & made it up. a long time ago. itsa big bouquet a flowers. but if u sent it to me ? id be like...well lets just say id go....hmmm.

Avatar of DiogenesDue
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

teals (tertiary) base (primary) color is actually yellow (secondary). so ur both wrong.

If someone makes an argument and says something was blue in passing, and it has no effect on the point being made, saying it is teal is pedantic and does nothing for the argument itself. If the first person were to then turn around and say "it's not actually teal, the RGB value when sampled is is actually #007878, not #008080", they would be equally pedantic and the end effect would be that everyone in the discussion would end up having to refer to basic color descriptions with ridiculous precision. Even then someone is bound to point out that based on a person's monitor settings they are not seeing the exact color described anyway and cannot make a judgment...

As I said, this tactic is used to save face when losing an argument.

P.S. If anyone is going to try and be more pedantic now...teal is 75%, blue, 25% yellow. Any color over 50% blue can be referred to as a shade of blue, and so a person calling teal blue is correct unless the discussion warrants much higher precision.

Avatar of Festers-bester
Thee_Ghostess_Lola wrote:

brocollis not really real. someone came along & made it up. a long time ago. itsa big bouquet a flowers. but if u sent it to me ? id be like...well lets just say id go....hmmm.

They didn't make it up. They just harvested the plant before it bloomed. Much of what we eat would be something else if we let it alone. All fruits are wombs for seeds.

Veal would grow up to be beef.

Caviar > fish.

Chicken eggs > you get the picture

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
Elroch wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:

[snip]

So if global climate cannot be experienced locally, there is nothing to worry about.

This is brilliant. So I can book my summer holiday in Death Valley because it doesn't experience Antarctic weather, and then have a winter one at the South Pole because it doesn't experience Death Valley temperatures.

Sometimes you say such dumb things, and always stick firmly to them.

No, that would be local climate, not global climate. The claim was that GLOBAL climate cannot be experienced locally.

If you want to book a vacation you would do so based on the local climate, NOT the global climate.

Avatar of lfPatriotGames
mpaetz wrote:
lfPatriotGames wrote:

But those are local climates, not global ones. Nobody is suggesting that the local climate in Antarctica can be experienced in the locality of Multnomah County. The claim was that GLOBAL climate (not local climate) cannot be experienced locally.

So if global climate cannot be experienced locally, there is nothing to worry about.

Incorrect. You mistake a statement of the obvious fact that no one can experience the climate all over the world from one small location to mean that change in global climate cannot affect that small location. Less precipitation in the Rocky Mountains in British Columbia and in the Cascade Range could dramatically lower the flow of water in your area and affect your ability to irrigate your land.

Well I'm confused. The examples you gave, in my opinion, were local climates. But you say "incorrect". Are the examples you gave global climates???

Avatar of playerafar

as I said - boondoggles with 'local' versus 'global'.
Most people know that climate and weather vary around the world geographically and also that climate and weather vary with time too.
Including the one billion + people who disagree that manmade climate change disasters are a thing.
They know about variations in climate and weather around the world and with time too.
In order to remain in 'comfortable' disagreement though - they don't want to look or feel like flat-earthers.
So they've got to take 'regional manmade climate disasters' out of play right away.
By whatever means.
'No no! Chemtrails! '
'No! Me! So it 'doesn't matter'! '
'No! The disasters aren't happening! Or would happen anyway!'
'conditional' tactics. A or B. Invalid bait and switch tactics. 'Heads I win Tails you lose.'