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Avatar of TomGa
I agree Troy but on the other hand it's useful to recognise the illusion of an internal choice. Don't you find that so?
Avatar of Stolen_Authenticity

Speaking, of 'Choice' .. I'm soliciting opinions, on what ye think, of the following quote. - Personally, I like it.. and regard it, as essentially True!

.. And, if, for any reason, it doesn't agree, with anyone who responds to this latest query 'post' - Please, 'pray-tell' Why!?

 

Avatar of TomGa
I don't agree. Take a determined person that works hard and achieves success. Look a little deeper.

You might find for example that their father was an outstanding role model in terms of demonstrating the benefit of a good work ethic.

It isn't true that everything happens for a reason but it is true that everything happens because of a reason.
Avatar of troy7915
TomGa wrote:
I agree Troy but on the other hand it's useful to recognise the illusion of an internal choice. Don't you find that so?

 

No. When the field of illusions collapses all illusions go. There is nothing left to 'look' at.

In clarity there is no illusion to recognize, choice included.

Avatar of TomGa
I say yes and no. Anyway I'm confused I need to take a look.
Avatar of troy7915

That's the point: in confusion one cannot look. 

So the brain must be still. Then confusion, assumptions and speculations(even when correct) are gone. Because the action following a direct, clear perception is different than the one following an assumption, even when correct.

So the brain must be still. How does it happen?

Avatar of TomGa
Troy you do say some very bright well articulated things. I can still my mind simply through watching. Is this what you mean!
Avatar of KingAxelson
Stolen_Authenticity wrote:

Speaking, of 'Choice' .. I'm soliciting opinions, on what ye think, of the following quote. - Personally, I like it.. and regard it, as essentially True!

.. And, if, for any reason, it doesn't agree, with anyone who responds to this latest query 'post' - Please, 'pray-tell' Why!?

 

 

de·ter·min·ism
dəˈtərməˌnizəm/
noun
PHILOSOPHY
 
  1. the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. Some philosophers have taken determinism to imply that individual human beings have no free will and cannot be held morally responsible for their actions.
  2.  

Essentially true is an appropriate way to put it. External events press in on all of us, what our response's are is the key. Do we go the rational route.. or give the knee jerk reaction which might not be suitable? Surround me with people who take responsibility for their actions any day.

Avatar of TomGa
Yeah there is this idea that to hold it to be true that we have free will makes us somehow a more morale person than someone that doesn't.

My own view is that a person's morality can't be defined by their belief system.
Avatar of TomGa
I was thinking about morality today. Let's take a look at morality okay?
Avatar of TomGa
So what's essentially morale? For me it's basically this. Don't deliberately cause pain do deliberately help others to avoid pain.

Morality is about pain is it not?
Avatar of troy7915
KingAxelson wrote: Surround me with people who take responsibility for ther actions any day.

 

What is responsibility? What is one responsible for?They're only responsible for their little corner: their family, their nation, their beliefs, ideologies--whatever they have identified themselves with. The little corner.

 But responsibility exists only when the perception of the whole exists. Only then can one act responsibly.

Avatar of TomGa
The thing is is it morally right to be selective about which life form experiences this pain?

So I can say this is a good person they should avoid pain this is a bad person they shouldn't.

Also is it okay for animals to experience pain? Insects?

And really does it make sense to pursue the absence of pain anyway?

Life is suffering! Everybody hurts!
Avatar of TomGa
I'll catch up with you guys. I'm wrecked. I've had a little drink but it's not a problem. I like it!
Avatar of troy7915
TomGa wrote:
So what's essentially morale? For me it's basically this. Don't deliberately cause pain do deliberately help others to avoid pain.


 That's part of it. Just being ignorant and not understanding how one's actions hurt others. doesn't exempt one from acting in an evil way.

Being nationalistic hurts others, whether one sees it or not.

Avatar of troy7915
TomGa wrote:
Troy you do say some very bright well articulated things. I can still my mind simply through watching. Is this what you mean!

  

No. Can you still something you are a part of?

 

You are a part of that which you're trying to still, not separate from it. One can play the game of watching oneself, but the mind is still not still.

Avatar of Stolen_Authenticity

For the 'mind' to be Completely Still.. Logically.. one must be clinically 'dead'! - And, then the question remains.. If there's a 'mind' that identifies, with each person, After death{?} .. The 'mind'..{albeit, in a different form}.. Is then {hypothetically}, absorbing & experiencing 'info'..{for lack of a better word}.. In another dimension.

Ergo.. As long as 'neurons' are traveling through the 'brain cells & synapses'; Who's to say, {with the possible exception, of the 'observer'}, that their 'mind' is 'still'!? -- Even hypothetically visualizing, a 'white clean slate' let's say - Is Not, {at least arguably}, an example, of a 'Still' mind.. that's observing, {or visualizing}, 'Nothing'! o:

Avatar of troy7915

Not clinically dead. Alive, but not thinking. When the eyes are open, there is recognition going on, objects are being recognized. There is thinking. We are not concerned with that.

Upon recognition of various objects, what is taking place? Various thoughts come in, apart from recognition, like 'I like what I see 'or 'I dislike it', 'it's ugly, it's wonderful', 'how can I use it'(if not, I'm moving on), or 'oh, this reminds me of...', and soon one gets lost in that train of thought.

This is is what we call a mind that is not still:!a mind that constantly judges, labels, compares, all for psychological security, confirming and affirming various shelters it has formed around a perceived center. This whole network prevents the mind from being still, in the sense defined above.

If you wanna take it one step further, close your eyes, thus eliminating the visual input.

Then watch how active that network is, even in the absence of any visual input! The usual chatter of the mind.

 

And the question is, how can the noise stop? The noise being all that useless activity, labels of the labels(!), likes and dislikes(the whole Facebook is based on that!), this constant preoccupation of thinking with oneself(if one watches themselves at random during the day, they can see this obsession with oneself inwardly, with the needs of this perceived inner self).

 

So how can that noise come to an end, so that the brain can really be quiet, really peaceful?

Avatar of Stolen_Authenticity

Can't say I've heard of him, {nor, have I ever been to the 'British Isles'}.. but.. since he's the source of the following, middling, quote!

 

Avatar of KingAxelson

Yeah.. Good stuff. These things should be known to you inside and out, just sayin..