Has Light got a decay factor?

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Avatar of Iknowthemoves

Going back to the Dark Matter search over decades and costing $BerberberBillions it wouldn't have been so bad if there had been some spin off benefits like non-stick frying pans re Moon landings...but no. Not so much as a...um..I don't know...a brown and sticky thing.

seem to be stuck on sticky things....oh, the irony!

Avatar of varelse1
fieldsofforce wrote:

When we first are taught mathematics we are introduced to dimensions (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.)  But we are in an infinite universe.  Grigori Perelman's proof of Poincare's Conjecture and Thurston's Geometrization are mathematics proof that we live in an infinite universe.   Perelman's proof asserts that it is impossible to determine the shape of the universe. Infinity has no bounds.  There is an infinity of dimensions.  Dimensions enable the human brain to analyze abstract mathematical problems.  Dimensions are a crutch that allow us to go to the next analitcal step which is symmetry.  Symmetry is a logical grouping of dimensions.   Reflections and Rotations of dimensions = Group.  Example dividing the human face into equal halves produces a balanced group of reflections and rotations.  In fact Group Theory is the study of symmetry.

Given: Space did not exist before the  if Bang. And

Given: That space is expanding

Doesn't that mean space is finite?

Is actual question. I honestly don't know.

Avatar of fieldsofforce
varelse1 wrote:
fieldsofforce wrote:

When we first are taught mathematics we are introduced to dimensions (1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.)  But we are in an infinite universe.  Grigori Perelman's proof of Poincare's Conjecture and Thurston's Geometrization are mathematics proof that we live in an infinite universe.   Perelman's proof asserts that it is impossible to determine the shape of the universe. Infinity has no bounds.  There is an infinity of dimensions.  Dimensions enable the human brain to analyze abstract mathematical problems.  Dimensions are a crutch that allow us to go to the next analitcal step which is symmetry.  Symmetry is a logical grouping of dimensions.   Reflections and Rotations of dimensions = Group.  Example dividing the human face into equal halves produces a balanced group of reflections and rotations.  In fact Group Theory is the study of symmetry.

Given: Space did not exist before the  if Bang. And

Given: That space is expanding

Doesn't that mean space is finite?

Is actual question. I honestly don't know.

                                                                                ___________________________

Given: Space did not exist before the  if Bang.  Incorrect.  There is noo such thing as getting something from nothing.

There is a syllogism that asserts: There are no absolutes.  And the exception proves the rule.  In other words, the condition of absolute no space and not time cannot and has not ever existed.  The exception is our universe and an infinity of universes.

Given: That space is expanding

Doesn't that mean space is finite?

Is actual question. I honestly don't know.

Infinity has no bounds.  The given that space is expanding, assumes incorrecty that the expansion had a beginning.  If you take the mathematical principle that there are no absolutes, then there is no beginning.  In other words, infinity is not expanding from somewhere.  infinity has no beginning and no end.  No, space is definitely not finite.  Grigori Perelman proved the Geometrization conjecture (the field of methematics that tries to determine the shape of the universe) is actually the Geometrization theorem.  The proof cements the reality that it is impossible to determine the shape of the universe because it is infinite.

Avatar of Metar_Taf

True

There is no such thing as the state of the universe.

Avatar of fieldsofforce

The entangled state of energy reveals something about the nature of gravity.  In the entangled state symmetric change is in effect.  Time is instantaneous.  The asymmetric  change that is visible is the change in up spin to down spin or vice versa even when the entangled particles are across the universe from each other.  Very much like the symmetric change in effect when the energy mass in the universe instantaneously warps space/time.  Once again time is instantaneous.  

The effect of the instantaneous Warping of Space/Time is Gravity.  Gravity functions throughout space/time at the speed of light (186,000 miles/second) (also the speed of causality).  The visible asymmetric change is the falling of matter from smaller bodies to larger bodies due to the warped space/time pushing  the smaller bodies down to the  larger bodies.

Avatar of fieldsofforce

In order  for the the entire space/time in our universe to have warped instantaneously the energy and its mass had to originally have been in the entangled state.

Avatar of RPaulB

 Fieldofforce;  you kind of just go on and on with words.  Would you please explain, "instantaneously".  Does that imply no time has passed for an event to happen ?  How does SPACE/TIME warp if there is no TIME in the space/time ?  And did it warp over a INFINITE space/time, instantaneously ?  And WHY ?

Avatar of fieldsofforce
RPaulB wrote:

 Fieldofforce;  you kind of just go on and on with words.  Would you please explain, "instantaneously".  Does that imply no time has passed for an event to happen ?  How does SPACE/TIME warp if there is no TIME in the space/time ?  And did it warp over a INFINITE space/time, instantaneously ?  And WHY ?

                                                                       ________________________

  Would you please explain, "instantaneously".    Without change it is impossible to identify the passage of time.  There are 2 types of change:  a. symmetric change and b. asymmetric change.  

An example of symmetric  change is entangled energy.  The instantaneous  change in spin from up spin to down spin or vice versa is asymmetric change.  But the symmetric change taking place inside the entangled energy is the cause  of the asymmetric change in spin.   Another example of symmetric change is how mass warps space/time.  Symmetric change is  not detectable with our 5 senses.  Asymmetric change is detectable  with our 5 senses.      

    Does that imply no time has passed for an event to happen ?  No       

     ...did it warp over a INFINITE space/time, instantaneously ? Yes

    And WHY?... Much physics  details have to be discovered

Another example  for clarification.  Inside the quantum wave energy has to be in the entangled state.  That is because [the photon must seek out an infinity of paths (instantaneously) in order to find the path of least action (stationary action)].  

                                         

Avatar of RPaulB

Go read your last 4 lines.  I asked why one warps an infinite universe and you answered, "Much physics details have to be discovered". That implies, nature did this so that you can "discover'.  AND the photon can ONLY go in the direction of its momentum vector.  That's ONE path regardless of least action.  But thank you for trying to answer.    I'm sure you will still reply an INFINITE number of times, yet.

Avatar of fieldsofforce
RPaulB wrote:

Go read your last 4 lines.  I asked why one warps an infinite universe and you answered, "Much physics details have to be discovered". That implies, nature did this so that you can "discover'.  AND the photon can ONLY go in the direction of its momentum vector.  That's ONE path regardless of least action.  But thank you for trying to answer.    I'm sure you will still reply an INFINITE number of times, yet.

                                                                             ________________________

On the contrary, nature does what it does.  It is our job to discover why.  There is nothing implied.

("...AND the photon can only go in the direction of its momentum vector. That's ONE  path regardless of least action...")  The fact remains that the photon must seek and infinity of paths.  Maybe you need to explain what you mean by the photon's momentum vector.  The way it stands the photon must still seek out an infinity of paths, momentum vector or not.  Please explain how momentum vector releases the photon from having to seek out an infinity of paths.

Avatar of RPaulB

I sure should explain the photon's momentum vector to you if you don't know.  It means that the photon's energy already KNOWS which way the photon will go BEFORE that energy is a photon.   All of which takes time and isn't instantaneous.

Avatar of fieldsofforce
RPaulB wrote:

I sure should explain the photon's momentum vector to you if you don't know.  It means that the photon's energy already KNOWS which way the photon will go BEFORE that energy is a photon.   All of which takes time and isn't instantaneous.

                                                                            _______________________

If by the photon's energy you mean its wave form, then none of that matters.  The photon must still seek out an infinity of paths in order to achieve the path of least action..  The only way the photon can seek out an infinity of paths is if the energy medium is in the entangled state.

Avatar of RPaulB

I just told you how the direction is determined.  If you don't beleive that, it's your right.    

Avatar of fieldsofforce
RPaulB wrote:

I just told you how the direction is determined.  If you don't beleive that, it's your right.    

                                                                     __________________________

I think we talking past each other.  The vector you are referring to is only one and may be predetermined.  However, there is an infinity of paths along that vector to find the path of least action.  The only way that the photon can seek out an infinity of paths the energy must be in the entangled state.  This is not an opinion that I have right to have.  On the contrary these are the facts of physics.

Avatar of RPaulB

"On the contrary these are the facts of physics."  That is an opinion again, yours again !!!   Facts of physics are things like: if an electron falls into orbit, the photon emitted is the difference between the momentum vectors of the electron at the time it starts to fall and the vector when in orbit.  That's the difference of the two Vectors and it's determined before the electron even falls.  ONE DIRECTION ONLY.

Avatar of fieldsofforce
RPaulB wrote:

"On the contrary these are the facts of physics."  That is an opinion again, yours again !!!   Facts of physics are things like: if an electron falls into orbit, the photon emitted is the difference between the momentum vectors of the electron at the time it starts to fall and the vector when in orbit.  That's the difference of the two Vectors and it's determined before the electron even falls.  ONE DIRECTION ONLY.

                                                                               ________________________

Let's stay with the photon inside  the quantum wave.  It must seek out an infinity of paths in order to find the path of least action.

Now tell me how you see it.  Describe technically how you see it.

Avatar of RPaulB

First let me say, you are a great member here.  Very few will ask questions are you are doing.  Next I'm sorry, I do not understand, photons inside the quantum wave.  Can you say that another way ?

Avatar of fieldsofforce
RPaulB wrote:

First let me say, you are a great member here.  Very few will ask questions are you are doing.  Next I'm sorry, I do not understand, photons inside the quantum wave.  Can you say that another way ?

                                                            __________________

Ok, let's go slow.  In Quantum Physics there is something called a Quantum Wave.  Yes or No

Avatar of Metar_Taf

No.

Avatar of RPaulB

I assume the answer is yes.  But what are the properties of the quantum wave ?   I should also ask what are the properties of a wave (nonquantum ) and what are the differences between the two ?.