Pi

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Avatar of janus255
TonightOnly wrote: Sharukin wrote: 

Since there is mass in the universe the geometry is not Euclidean.


 This is only a theory. Next month, someone could show Einstein to be misguided, and show that Euclidean geometry makes a lot more sense.


 While that's technically true, I don't think you realize how much evidense there is for relativity. Finding Eistein to be wrong is about as likely as disproving the existance of gravity at this point.

However, since the universe is practically empty, Euclidean geometry is really accurate, as long as you're not talking about a circle that's right next to a black hole or something.


Avatar of kyuudou
TalFan wrote: Well I'm studying engineering , so thank god we let the scientists bother with the numbers after the decimal. 3 is sufficiently close for pi :)
Well I sincerely hope you're not a civil engineering student. If so, I'm glad I live in America and won't be driving over any of the bridges you helped design.
Avatar of aristeidis9

Yes i know very good what Ευκλειδης said,he is an ancestor of me!But everything he was claimed counted on perfect shapes.Anyway,as you said "we have been presented with better explanations: namely, the theory of general relativity" is something i agree.The point for me is that fractal geometry is more accurate than Euclidean,but Euclidean is much more aproachable.And finally Ευκλειδης work is a tool that people learn geometry for over 2000 years..i don't try to lower him.

 


Avatar of janus255

Fractal geometry is far less useful than Euclidean geometry though. All you can really do with fractals (with respect to reality) is make approximate dimension counts, you can't really calculate a lot of useful information. Furthermore, even though there are a lot of natural things that are fractal-like (trees, clouds, etc.), I would say there are many more shapes on a universal scale that are better described with classical shapes. For example, the Earth is smoother than a billiard ball, so a sphere represents it almost perfectly.

Furthermore, fractal geometry really isn't different than Euclidean geometry. It still takes place (usually) in Euclidean space. All of the geometric structure is exactly the same as Euclidean geometry, it just studies "shapes" within the Euclidean space that classical geometry wouldn't bother to study. In that sense, fractal geometry is an expansion of classical geometry, not opposed to it.


Avatar of theCandyman
Loomis wrote:LeviAJones wrote:"It would have been a reprehensibly useless feat had it not been so easy." ~Professor Aitken of Edinburgh after reciting the first 1000 digits of pi

The first 100 digits of pi are sufficient to calculate within the size of a proton the circumference from the radius of any circle that fits in our universe.


 Cool, I never knew that.


Avatar of Alex_M

I currently know 213 decimals of pi. Beat that!

janus, you're right, but Mendelbrot's fractals are still awesome to look at!


Avatar of janus255
Alex_M wrote:

I currently know 213 decimals of pi. Beat that!

janus, you're right, but Mendelbrot's fractals are still awesome to look at!


 Absolutely. I can't count the hours I've spent zooming in to various pieces of the Mandelbrot set.

For those who are interested: Ultra Fractal 4 is a program that displays a wide variety of fractals, and you can customize them and zoom in where you choose. They have a free trial on their website.


Avatar of StacyBearden
Pi is actually very good with milk. I personally like strawberry pi, although I'm not opposed to chocoloate pi, either. Pi crust is very important. You want the pi crust flakey, but not crumbly. That's a delicate thing for the pi maker. You can also make pi with a graham cracker crust, but a traditional pi has a regular crust. In the US we talk being as American as apple pi. That's me. American as apple pi. Curiously enough, it takes 3.14 apples to make a good apple pi.
Avatar of TonightOnly
janus255 wrote: TonightOnly wrote: Sharukin wrote: 

Since there is mass in the universe the geometry is not Euclidean.


 This is only a theory. Next month, someone could show Einstein to be misguided, and show that Euclidean geometry makes a lot more sense.


 While that's technically true, I don't think you realize how much evidense there is for relativity. Finding Eistein to be wrong is about as likely as disproving the existance of gravity at this point.

However, since the universe is practically empty, Euclidean geometry is really accurate, as long as you're not talking about a circle that's right next to a black hole or something.


 I do realize how much evidence is in favor of relativity. What you don't realize is that I am not an evidentialist!

Just kidding...

Seriously though, I understand that relativity is generally accepted nowadays as a very good explanation of our universe. However, we need to remember that this was the case of Euclidean geometry not 100 years ago.

 

In response to your black hole comment, I assume that you are referring to gravity causing flaws in Euclidean geometry. This is one of the first discoveries that led theoretical physicists away from a Euclidean system and is what Sharukin was referring to in his original post. Don't forget, though, that the other natural forces also urge us to deviate from a Euclidean system of geometry. 


Avatar of TonightOnly
aristeidis9 wrote:

Yes i know very good what Ευκλειδης said,he is an ancestor of me!But everything he was claimed counted on perfect shapes.


 I still don't understand this. The Euclidean system of geometry is a system much deeper than shapes and lines.


Avatar of aristeidis9

Now is a point that i wish to knew better this language.It is hard for me to express what i believe and understand good all these comments..So i borrowed an article from wikipedia from Euclidis geometry page:"However, Einstein's theory of general relativity shows that the true geometry of spacetime is non-Euclidean geometry. For example, if a triangle is constructed out of three rays of light, then in general the interior angles do not add up to 180 degrees due to gravity. A relatively weak gravitational field, such as the Earth's or the sun's, is represented by a metric that is approximately, but not exactly, Euclidean. Until the 20th century, there was no technology capable of detecting the deviations from Euclidean geometry, but Einstein predicted that such deviations would exist. They were later verified by observations such as the observation of the slight bending of starlight by the Sun during a solar eclipse in 1919, and non-Euclidean geometry is now, for example, an integral part of the software that runs the GPS system.

For me the impressive about Euclidean goemetry is if we consider when Ευκλειδης said all these things..

My opinion about general relativity is that will be accepted immortal.With chaos theory and quantum mechanics are the best tools that human ever created


Avatar of Aristokatt
pumpkin
Avatar of aristeidis9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbASOcqc1Ss&feature=related.OK you have to see this!!The party with pi begins at the fifth min but its worth to see whole video.You will be suprised how far can human brain can go...
Avatar of StacyBearden
cherry
Avatar of hinmanhouse
Excuse me, but my paint is drying and I have to get back to watching it.
Avatar of StacyBearden
hehehe
Avatar of Fromper

Everyone knows pi. When I was in high school, I memorized e to 15 decimal places, and I still remember it: 2.718281828459045.

 

--Fromper 


Avatar of bruce_ml
This is sooooooooo useless :x
Avatar of StacyBearden
I propose we discuss infinity. GO!
Avatar of Apoapsis
StacyBearden wrote: 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679
8214808651328230664709384460955058223172535940812848111745028410270193852110555964462294895493038196
4428810975665933446128475648233786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273
724587006606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146951941511609 And that was from memory. 

Yeah, it is THE EXACT NUMBER OF DIGITS WIKIPEDIA GIVES YOU!