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Seven Big Failed Environmentalist Predictions

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JamieDelarosa
JamieDelarosa
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Jun 5, 2015
0
#381
kaynight wrote:

Bring back the Luddites!

There are already plenty in the topic.

Syd_Arthur
Syd_Arthur
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Jun 5, 2015
0
#382
badger_song wrote:

What reward are the participants getting from taking part in this farcical thread?This post has been intellectually dishonest from the start and is little more than a 22-page long exercise in trolling,This isn't a exploration  of enviromental science or paleoclimatology...it's a cheerleading contest...a brow-beating competition.So why would anyone be still taking part in this thread after 22 pointless pages?Anyone? No points have been made,no one has scored a goal,nothing has been won(or lost).At the very least, one side of this on-going diatribe isn't even being honest in this  "debate"(a term used VERY losely in regards to this thread) their ego-driven agenda has some other goal in mind.I suspect that their dishonestly extends far beyond this topic.Anyone...why are people still "discussing"  "facts" here?

Oh, snap!!!Surprised

I know, riiiight...tell me about it! Cry

JamieDelarosa
JamieDelarosa
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Jun 5, 2015
0
#383
bigpoison wrote:
JamieDelarosa wrote:

Fracking, or hydraulic fracturing, is almost as old as the oil industry itself.  In the old days, they had open holes and used to drop dynmaite down induces fractures in the oil bearing formation.  It is by no means a "last gasp."

 

Ummm...no.  How do you hydraulically fracture a formation with dynamite? 

You've got all the science degrees, you must understand hydraulics. 

Without a medium (hydraulic fluid if you prefer) and pressure, you can't hydraulically fracture.

The idea can be traced back to just after the second WW, but the actual practice was impossible before the huge technological advances  in directional drilling that occurred in the early aughts.

Certainly, though, it isn't the "last gasp" in man's quest for oil. 

"Fracturing" the productive formation is an old technique.  The hydraulic techniques began around WWII, as I recall.  Those are not "open holes" though.  If you have ever watched a film like "Giant," you can see the effects of an open hole fracking job - a gusher.  Those are not allowed any longer.

Today, the drill holes have blowout preventers, intermediate plugs, casing, and drilling mud that circulates through the hole in the drilling process to counteract lithostatic and reservoir pressures.

Syd_Arthur
Syd_Arthur
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Jun 5, 2015
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#384
JamieDelarosa wrote:
kaynight wrote:

Bring back the Luddites!

There are already plenty in the topic.

Rrroasted!!!Undecided

JamieDelarosa
JamieDelarosa
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Jun 5, 2015
0
#385
kayak21 wrote:

I don't understand all this fracking fracking. 

To have a economical oil and/or gas reservoir, the properties of porosity and permeability must be present.  Porosity is the measure of the open, pore space in the rock that can contain the hydrocarbon fluid.  Sandstone, for instance, is a very common reservoir rock. 

Permeability is the ability for the fluid to move through the reservoir rock.  A formation with low permeability is called "tight," like a Scotman with his purse.  Not apt to let go of his riches. :^)

When you fracture the formation, you create secondary porosity and permeabity.

ChastityMoon
ChastityMoon
Jun 5, 2015
0
#386
JamieDelarosa wrote:
kayak21 wrote:

I don't understand all this fracking fracking. 

To have a economical oil and/or gas reservoir, the properties of porosity and permeability must be present.  Porosity is the measure of the open, pore space in the rock that can contain the hydrocarbon fluid.  Sandstone, for instance, is a very common reservoir rock. 

Permeability is the ability for the fluid to move through the reservoir rock.  A formation with low permeability is called "tight," like a Scotman with his purse.  Not apt to let go of his riches. :^)

When you fracture the formation, you create secondary porosity and permeabity.

6/05/2015 — Rare Kansas 4.3M Fracking Earthquake — Large Midwest Movement hits

JamieDelarosa
JamieDelarosa
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Jun 6, 2015
0
#387
ChastityMoon wrote:
JamieDelarosa wrote:
kayak21 wrote:

I don't understand all this fracking fracking. 

To have a economical oil and/or gas reservoir, the properties of porosity and permeability must be present.  Porosity is the measure of the open, pore space in the rock that can contain the hydrocarbon fluid.  Sandstone, for instance, is a very common reservoir rock. 

Permeability is the ability for the fluid to move through the reservoir rock.  A formation with low permeability is called "tight," like a Scotman with his purse.  Not apt to let go of his riches. :^)

When you fracture the formation, you create secondary porosity and permeabity.

6/05/2015 — Rare Kansas 4.3M Fracking Earthquake — Large Midwest Movement hits

Earthquake forecasting website - kook central.

JamieDelarosa
JamieDelarosa
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Jun 6, 2015
0
#388
kayak21 wrote:
Pulpofeira wrote:

Also, there are huge reserves of oil at the Poles. We only need to remove all that fracking ice, quickly!

Would the oil be frozen? Could we store it in the freezer? 

No, the oil would not be frozen, due to the local geothermal gradient.  In the Kuparuk River reservior, at 8800 feet (2680 meters), the average temperature varies from 175 to 185 deg. F

kayak21
kayak21
Jun 6, 2015
0
#389
JamieDelarosa wrote:
kayak21 wrote:
Pulpofeira wrote:

Also, there are huge reserves of oil at the Poles. We only need to remove all that fracking ice, quickly!

Would the oil be frozen? Could we store it in the freezer? 

No, the oil would not be frozen, due to the local geothermal gradient.  In the Kuparuk River reservior, at 8800 feet (2680 meters), the average temperature varies from 175 to 185 deg. F

 Surprised Same temp as my bathwater! Laughing

Senior-Lazarus_Long
Senior-Lazarus_Long
Jun 6, 2015
0
#390

JamieDelarosa wrote:

Senior-Lazarus_Long wrote:

Chagas disease is caused by the migration of the tropical Kissing Bug,and now affects 300,000 in the US. Climate shift is going to require trillions of dollars investment,and will still injure 100s of millions of people.

"Require"??  "Investment"??  You mean throwing taxpayers money away trying to stop the inevitable.

I mean investing in agricultural infrastructure,so we can continue to eat ona regular basis. I mean a way to resettle displaced people. I mean world wide delivery of health care. And I mean measures that reduce our pollution.

JamieDelarosa
JamieDelarosa
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Jun 6, 2015
0
#391

Reducing pollution - agreed

"Investing" has been a codeword since the Clinton Administration for "increased taxing."  What sort of "investments"?

"Injured" and "displaced"  hundreds of millions of people ... whose prognostication is that?

JamieDelarosa
JamieDelarosa
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Jun 6, 2015
0
#392
badger_song wrote:

What reward are the participants getting from taking part in this farcical thread?This post has been intellectually dishonest from the start and is little more than a 22-page long exercise in trolling,This isn't a exploration  of enviromental science or paleoclimatology...it's a cheerleading contest...a brow-beating competition.So why would anyone be still taking part in this thread after 22 pointless pages?Anyone? No points have been made,no one has scored a goal,nothing has been won(or lost).At the very least, one side of this on-going diatribe isn't even being honest in this  "debate"(a term used VERY losely in regards to this thread) their ego-driven agenda has some other goal in mind.I suspect that their dishonestly extends far beyond this topic.Anyone...why are people still "discussing"  "facts" here?

I'd like you to look up "ad hominem attack".  Then you will understand why it is a fallacious form of debate.  Good bye.

bigpoison
bigpoison
Jun 10, 2015
0
#393
JamieDelarosa wrote:
bigpoison wrote:
JamieDelarosa wrote:

Fracking, or hydraulic fracturing, is almost as old as the oil industry itself.  In the old days, they had open holes and used to drop dynmaite down induces fractures in the oil bearing formation.  It is by no means a "last gasp."

 

Ummm...no.  How do you hydraulically fracture a formation with dynamite? 

You've got all the science degrees, you must understand hydraulics. 

Without a medium (hydraulic fluid if you prefer) and pressure, you can't hydraulically fracture.

The idea can be traced back to just after the second WW, but the actual practice was impossible before the huge technological advances  in directional drilling that occurred in the early aughts.

Certainly, though, it isn't the "last gasp" in man's quest for oil. 

"Fracturing" the productive formation is an old technique.  The hydraulic techniques began around WWII, as I recall.  Those are not "open holes" though.  If you have ever watched a film like "Giant," you can see the effects of an open hole fracking job - a gusher.  Those are not allowed any longer.

Today, the drill holes have blowout preventers, intermediate plugs, casing, and drilling mud that circulates through the hole in the drilling process to counteract lithostatic and reservoir pressures.

"Open hole fracking job"?  Does that mean anything?  You'll have to explain it to me.

 I'm not sure why you write with such aplomb about a particular operation that you have very limited knowledge of. 

Today folks use drilling mud?  Mr. Lucas improved on straight water in 1901 and mud has been the standard ever since.  It's a rare well that, in the history of the world, has been drilled with a rotary method that didn't use mud.  Mud's most important function is to hold the hole open and carry cuttings to the surface.  

None of those things you've mentioned are new technology.  Blowout preventers have been around since the early 20th century.  Casings and plugs have been around even longer.

There's only one reason we no longer see blowouts like the one's depicted in the movies and that's depth.  The easy pickins are all gone.  Those early 20th century "gushers" that jumped hundreds of feet in the air were never deeper than 1,000'.

I guess they still are encountered occassionally, but always at the ocean floor, rather than up here on terra firma.

It's so strange for me to be correcting the misinformation given by someone of your political bent.  It's much more usual to hear some wild eyed sandals wearing naive going on about the perils of something they know nothing about.

clms_chess
clms_chess
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Jun 10, 2015
0
#394

@ bigpoison

Oh galactic storehouse of knowledge... could you elaborate a little more on your assertion that Jamie... has very limited knowledge... about a particular operation... fracturing. :D

SpiritoftheVictory
SpiritoftheVictory
Closed: Inactive
Jun 11, 2015
0
#395

Here's my bottom line:


NO NEW TAXES!

AND GET RID OF MOST OF THE OLD ONES!

I DON'T CARE! WHEN AN ELECTRIC CAR IS AFFORDABLE, I'LL BUY ONE!

So, either go and figure out how to make electric cars and solar pannels affordable or get lost! That's it! No more talking.


That is my position. Who holds similar views, I suggest no negotiations with the environmentalist whachos. No negotiations, no compromise, and no taxation. That's it!

odisea777
odisea777
Jun 12, 2015
0
#396
SpiritoftheVictory wrote:

Here's my bottom line:


NO NEW TAXES!

AND GET RID OF MOST OF THE OLD ONES!

I DON'T CARE! WHEN AN ELECTRIC CAR IS AFFORDABLE, I'LL BUY ONE!

So, either go and figure out how to make electric cars and solar pannels affordable or get lost! That's it! No more talking.


That is my position. Who holds similar views, I suggest no negotiations with the environmentalist whachos. No negotiations, no compromise, and no taxation. That's it!

generally I am in favor of small government and low taxes; but where the environment is concerned we should err on the side of protecting it. We have no place else to live. There's no harm in "overprotecting" the planet we live on; the economic arguments against environmentalists are really weak

kayak21
kayak21
Jun 12, 2015
0
#397

Yep. It's all about money. When we have all been forced to buy electric cars where is all the electricity coming from and how much will we be taxed for it?

kayak21
kayak21
Jun 12, 2015
0
#398

You're a bright spark!

kayak21
kayak21
Jun 12, 2015
0
#399

Well I hope the lead is longer than the one on my mower or I'll only be able to go as far as the end of my garden. Innocent

kayak21
kayak21
Jun 12, 2015
0
#400

Maybe we could carry some liquid fuel to get us home.........what could we use........oh! petrol!   :)