The Science of Biological Evolution (no politics or religion)

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Avatar of Pulpofeira
pawnkeeper escribió:
evolution play
noun evo·lu·tion \ˌe-və-ˈlü-shən, ˌē-və-\
Popularity: Top 10% of words
Simple Definition of evolution

biology : a theory that the differences between modern plants and animals are because of changes that happened by a natural process over a very long time

: the process by which changes in plants and animals happen over time

: a process of slow change and development

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
 
Basically it is saying we, humans, evolved from plants. But we still have plants, They should be gone because they evolved into something else. At least they say it is a theory. If we evolved a long time ago and I assume we are still evolving, why don't we have any  evidence of us evolving now, something? That must of been a long time ago. seems like obvious questions to me.
Oh, one more thing. Our reproduction system only creates the the same thing. To change into something else don't we have to make something else? But we don't do that. According to the definition it takes a long time. It has been a long time for man according to science.

Avatar of dtf15

Just adding a sidenote:

The idea that evolution can "make my brain better evolved than your brain", ect, is a very dangerous idea.

Hitler used survival of the fitest to justify genocide.

The idea that African Americans are 'under evolved' humans has been taught in the past.

If we are animals we have no rules.

one of the Columbine shooters had a t-shirt saying "survival of the fitest" on it.

Several other school shooters have made active refferences to natural selection, or survival of the fittest.

And the list could, (and I might make a longer one later) go on.

Avatar of dtf15

Oh, and one more:

Several serious (and I mean serious) evolution proponents (I think form EPA?) have made very disturbing remarks about the value of human life.

One of them compared his son's life to the life of an ant. So should we institute the death penalty for stepping on ants? After all, if evolution is true, why not?

Others made comments comparing rats, dogs, pigs, and cats to human babies!

To believe in evolution is not a laughing matter! You could get sentenced for life in prison if you step on an ant! (pun intended, but not without a note of seriousness)

Avatar of Pulpofeira
dtf15 escribió:

Just adding a sidenote:

The idea that evolution can "make my brain better evolved than your brain", ect, is a very dangerous idea.

Hitler used survival of the fitest to justify genocide.

The idea that African Americans are 'under evolved' humans has been taught in the past.

If we are animals we have no rules.

one of the Columbine shooters had a t-shirt saying "survival of the fitest" on it.

Several other school shooters have made active refferences to natural selection, or survival of the fittest.

And the list could, (and I might make a longer one later) go on.

Again with this misunderstanding. Take a look to this Darwin's quote: "what a book a devil's chaplain might write on the clumsy, wasteful, blundering, low, and horribly cruel work of nature". People bastardizing things for their own purposes or simply misunderstanding them have nothing to do with the facts of nature. Since when should those facts be a guide on ethics? To blame the theory for this use of it is simply stupid, I'm sorry. 

Also, don't forget "the fittest" can mean different things depending of the environments, wich aren't inmutable.

Avatar of SweetGirl2040
wraithleader wrote:

to answer Bibo 21;

No I believe in neither.

to answer my dear friend Anya 2040:

youre thing involved speculation (you started with, 'say  there was...') and ended with'over time this animal...' which calls for looking into a future witch may or not be.Its not natural selection to mate with the best  there was considering if you weren't up to par youde be dead.

 

 

You say my story involved speculation however speculation involves no firm evidence (oxford dictionary). I demonstrated firm evidence with my real life examples that the development is in fact possible and has occured. My example of them developing webbed feet to be better swimmers->evidence: dogs that work in water have developed webbed feet while non-water dogs did not. Thus you cannot call it speculation as I provided evidence via real life examples that is has happened.

Secondly, this story is an explanation on a possible theory for dolphins and whales. The future has happened and we can see that with whales and dolphins. You have to look to the past to see the future. I did that and also compared it to the present with real life examples.

Sexual selection is a mode of natural selection. Natural selection is an umbrella term that encompases 5 types of selection: directional selection, disruptive selection, stabilizing selection, sexual selection, and artificial selection. (please look them up and I can't explain it all here). So yes in fact what I was speaking of before was sexual selection which means that they will choose which to mate with which does and can occur in all animals and pushes evolution.

Avatar of pawnkeeper

The law of nature says every thing decays It does not improve.

 

Evolution versus a basic law of nature

Scores of distinguished scientists have carefully examined the most basic laws of nature to see if Evolution is physically possible—given enough time and opportunity. The conclusion of many is that Evolution is simply not feasible. One major problem is the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics.

law of science: basic, unchanging principle of nature; a scientifically observed phenomenon which has been subjected to very extensive measurements and experimentation and has repeatedly proved to be invariable throughout the known universe (e.g., the law of gravity, the laws of motion).
thermodynamics: the study of heat power; a branch of physics which studies the efficiency of energy transfer and exchange.1

 

Decaying buildings. Massive structures may appear to be capable of lasting almost forever, but they will not. The need for ongoing repairs stems, in part, from the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. (Scene from the ORIGINS motion picture series.)

The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics describes basic principles familiar in everyday life. It is partially a universal law of decay; the ultimate cause of why everything ultimately falls apart and disintegrates over time. Material things are not eternal. Everything appears to change eventually, and chaos increases. Nothing stays as fresh as the day one buys it; clothing becomes faded, threadbare, and ultimately returns to dust.2 Everything ages and wears out. Even death is a manifestation of this law. The effects of the 2nd Law are all around, touching everything in the universe.

Each year, vast sums are spent to counteract the relentless effects of this law (maintenance, painting, medical bills, etc.). Ultimately, everything in nature is obedient to its unchanging laws.

2nd law of thermodynamics: Physicist Lord Kelvin stated it technically as follows: "There is no natural process the only result of which is to cool a heat reservoir and do external work." In more understandable terms, this law observes the fact that the useable energy in the universe is becoming less and less. Ultimately there would be no available energy left. Stemming from this fact we find that the most probable state for any natural system is one of disorder. All natural systems degenerate when left to themselves.3

 

Cells and blood vessels—scene from the ORIGINS motion picture series.

It is well known that, left to themselves, chemical compounds ultimately break apart into simpler materials; they do not ultimately become more complex. Outside forces can increase order for a time (through the expenditure of relatively large amounts of energy, and through the input of design). However, such reversal cannot last forever. Once the force is released, processes return to their natural direction - greater disorder. Their energy is transformed into lower levels of availability for further work. The natural tendency of complex, ordered arrangements and systems is to become simpler and more disorderly with time.4

 

Evolutionism claims that over billions of years everything is basically developing UPWARD, becoming more orderly and complex. However, this basic law of science (2nd Law of Thermodynamics) says the opposite. The pressure is DOWNWARD, toward simplification and disorder. (Illustration from the ORIGINS series)

Thus, in the long term, there is an overall downward trend throughout the universe. Ultimately, when all the energy of the cosmos has been degraded, all molecules will move randomly, and the entire universe will be cold and without order. To put it simply: In the real world, the long-term overall flow is downhill, not uphill. All experimental and physical observation appears to confirm that the Law is indeed universal, affecting all natural processes in the long run.5

Naturalistic Evolutionism requires that physical laws and atoms organize themselves into increasingly complex and beneficial, ordered arrangements.6 Thus, over eons of time, billions of things are supposed to have developed upward, becoming more orderly and complex.7

However, this basic law of science (2nd Law of Thermodynamics) reveals the exact opposite. In the long run, complex, ordered arrangements actually tend to become simpler and more disorderly with time. There is an irreversible downward trend ultimately at work throughout the universe. Evolution, with its ever increasing order and complexity, appears impossible in the natural world.



 

Avatar of Elroch

pawnkeeper, you need to break the habit of a lifetime and check out the list of refutations of bogus arguments against evolution some time. One of them is the ridiculous claim that evolution breaks the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Another is that it is very unlikely for a specific protein to appear out of thin air. These are errors that someone who wants to understand the science and the real world needs to stop making.

To get one out of the way once and for all (actually until you ignore the fact it has been refuted):

Evolution does NOT break the 2nd law of thermodynamics

Avatar of pawnkeeper
paulgregoryIV wrote:

This pawn guy sure knows how to cut and paste.

Hey, I'm like you. I'm not an authority. So we need information from some one with authority. It is about science isn't it? Or do we only want your wrong opinion.

 

Avatar of pawnkeeper
Elroch wrote:

pawnkeeper, you need to break the habit of a lifetime and check out the list of refutations of bogus arguments against evolution some time. One of them is the ridiculous claim that evolution breaks the 2nd law of thermodynamics. Another is that it is very unlikely for a specific protein to appear out of thin air. These are errors that someone who wants to understand the science and the real world needs to stop making.

To get one out of the way once and for all (actually until you ignore the fact it has been refuted):

Evolution does NOT break the 2nd law of thermodynamics Yes, I know it is not a closed system. But scientist know that the law still applies that all things deteriorate. All things. I believe they know better than you and I.

 

Avatar of Raspberry_Yoghurt
dtf15 wrote:

Just adding a sidenote:

The idea that evolution can "make my brain better evolved than your brain", ect, is a very dangerous idea.

Hitler used survival of the fitest to justify genocide.

The idea that African Americans are 'under evolved' humans has been taught in the past.

If we are animals we have no rules.

one of the Columbine shooters had a t-shirt saying "survival of the fitest" on it.

Several other school shooters have made active refferences to natural selection, or survival of the fittest.

And the list could, (and I might make a longer one later) go on.

This is wrong logic.

Whatever politial purposes a scientific theory is used/misused for or not, has nothing to do with if it is correct or not.

Avatar of Raspberry_Yoghurt
dtf15 wrote:

Oh, and one more:

Several serious (and I mean serious) evolution proponents (I think form EPA?) have made very disturbing remarks about the value of human life.

One of them compared his son's life to the life of an ant. So should we institute the death penalty for stepping on ants? After all, if evolution is true, why not?

Others made comments comparing rats, dogs, pigs, and cats to human babies!

To believe in evolution is not a laughing matter! You could get sentenced for life in prison if you step on an ant! (pun intended, but not without a note of seriousness)

Please.

Avatar of SweetGirl2040

Pawnkeeper: Can you then explain how a 2 single cells (sperm and an egg cell) can combine, grow, and become more and more ordered rather than disordered with time?

Avatar of Elroch
pawnkeeper wrote:
paulgregoryIV wrote:

This pawn guy sure knows how to cut and paste.

Hey, I'm like you. I'm not an authority. So we need information from some one with authority. It is about science isn't it? Or do we only want your wrong opinion.

 

pawn, I have told you on multiple occasions in the past that copied and pasted arguments about the 2nd law of thermodynamics are simply wrong. You continue to cut and paste them. That is why your knowledge of the subject remains abysmal.

Avatar of Fifthelement

I agree that universe is consist of regularities,anomalies,and miracles.Someone could make a favor on regularities only or on chaos only.It will be difficult to use the one of it to disprove the other.

Avatar of pawnkeeper
Anya2040 wrote:

Pawnkeeper: Can you then explain how a 2 single cells (sperm and an egg cell) can combine, grow, and become more and more ordered rather than disordered with time? Sure, it grows up and dies.

 

Avatar of pawnkeeper
Elroch wrote:
pawnkeeper wrote:
paulgregoryIV wrote:

This pawn guy sure knows how to cut and paste.

Hey, I'm like you. I'm not an authority. So we need information from some one with authority. It is about science isn't it? Or do we only want your wrong opinion.

 

pawn, I have told you on multiple occasions in the past that copied and pasted arguments about the 2nd law of thermodynamics are simply wrong. You continue to cut and paste them. That is why your knowledge of the subject remains abysmal. That is funny, Science seems to think it is still well founded. Besides it is still fact the every thing deteriorates not become dominant. Mountains erode, iron rusts, and we all die.

 

Avatar of pawnkeeper
pawnkeeper wrote:
Elroch wrote:
pawnkeeper wrote:
paulgregoryIV wrote:

This pawn guy sure knows how to cut and paste.

Hey, I'm like you. I'm not an authority. So we need information from some one with authority. It is about science isn't it? Or do we only want your wrong opinion.

 

pawn, I have told you on multiple occasions in the past that copied and pasted arguments about the 2nd law of thermodynamics are simply wrong. You continue to cut and paste them. That is why your knowledge of the subject remains abysmal. That is funny, Science seems think it is still well founded. Besides it is still fact that every thing deteriorates, it does not become superior. Mountains erode, iron rusts, and we all die. That should be simple enough for you.

 

 

Avatar of pawnkeeper
Raspberry_Yoghurt wrote:
wraithleader wrote:

if you want to have an eye opening discussion tell me something you thinks proves evolution and I will tell you how it disproves it.speaking purely scientifically 

That bacteria has evolved resistance against antibiotics. That is not evolution. It is trying to stay alive.

 

Avatar of pawnkeeper
Elroch wrote:
pawnkeeper wrote:
paulgregoryIV wrote:

This pawn guy sure knows how to cut and paste.

Hey, I'm like you. I'm not an authority. So we need information from some one with authority. It is about science isn't it? Or do we only want your wrong opinion.

 

pawn, I have told you on multiple occasions in the past that copied and pasted arguments about the 2nd law of thermodynamics are simply wrong. You continue to cut and paste them. That is why your knowledge of the subject remains abysmal. Hey, you are cheating. You are going against your own advice and using the dictionary.

 

Avatar of pawnkeeper
alex-rodriguez wrote:

I noticed evolution deniers (biologists call them flat-earthers) know absolutely nothing about how evolution works. Perhaps one of their problems is they get all their information about science from dishonest brain-dead science deniers.

There is no hope for these people. Their brain damage is incurable. Oh, I see, you know every thing. We should all take your advice.