You want the truth? You can't handle the truth

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BlargDragon
tomtrytostay wrote:
Blarg I'm answering oldest first but I just want you to know that I'm very much enjoying you and I admire that you are willing to talk of an unconventional view.

It's easy both to stay with the pack and belittle those that wonder aloud and take a position but it shows balls to say this is how I'm thinking and it's different than the crowd.

I just want you to know that for me at least you are a great addition to this thread.

I appreciate that! And likewise! Thinking aloud is how ideas get kicked around and vetted. I could well be wrong about everything, and that makes it fun.

tomtrytostay
Carla 122. Sorry I took so long to answer beautiful.

Well it depends what you mean. Yes an animal exists. There are thoughts and feelings and behaviours present. All of these things are present and all a part of nature.

But does my life exist? No Carla there is no you to own anything.

All there is is nature.
mdinnerspace

The meaning of your story,

Ah ha!

I get it...very subtle.

Tom should be asked to leave the room!

tomtrytostay
Thanks again SA. Ha ha
mdinnerspace

Tom ?

If you don't exist, what in the hell are you talking about post # 122???

mdinnerspace

You're simply interrupting a discussion that was taking on some meaning here, in the present. This page. Like today

You have a habit of trying to make everything about you, what happened yesterday.

The truth. Can you handle it?

tomtrytostay
Scott 130 I really enjoyed that. We hold so much store in what we own but really what's it worth?

I look at my belongings and think one day I'll die and what will any of these things mean?

Worthless.

And yet when I look at my new found belief that all there is is nature I realise that nothing is either worthless or worthy. It just is.
BlargDragon
tomtrytostay wrote:
I am 121.

That's a really interesting view.

It makes my head spin a bit.

I disagree essentially. If I'm beside a lake and you're not the lake nonetheless exists.

It is interesting though to wonder about experience. In this way. We see ourselves as queen and king like sitting in our brain and making dictations.

Right now I'll say this or do that.

Mind controlling body.

But then what are without experience?

Though I accept all we are is nature when I think of I on a more individual level I tend to think of my experience.

And yes my experience absolutely is different than yours.


So in that way truth is different.
I think though that truth isn't really the right word.

Perhaps reality. We all have a different reality.

If reality is different for each of us, in what sense does the lake exist?

mdinnerspace

Time to leave. Tom has arrived.

mdinnerspace

Good luck Blarg with tom ever giving a rational explanation.

tomtrytostay
There should be a language differentiation between subjective views and objective views.

A sky is blue. Objective. A sky is beautiful subjective.

And yet a sky isn't blue to a colour blind person.

Perhaps then no adjective can describe the truth.

Only a noun.

That noun is nature.

Or two nature & causality.
tomtrytostay

Evolution!
BlargDragon
mdinnerspace wrote:

Good luck Blarg with tom ever giving a rational explanation.

I get that you're frustrated with his arguments and disagree with his conclusions and his conversational style, and that's all fair, but I fail to see what's gained by the constant antagonism.

BlargDragon
tomtrytostay wrote:
There should be a language differentiation between subjective views and objective views.

A sky is blue. Objective. A sky is beautiful subjective.

And yet a sky isn't blue to a colour blind person.

Perhaps then no adjective can describe the truth.

Only a noun.

That noun is nature.

Or two nature & causality.

We can't even be sure causality is more than just an observation. Reference frames shift depending on your perspective. Effects can seem to precede causes.

"The sky is blue" is subjective on its own. Blue is how our brain makes sense of a certain wavelength of light. light is one way we make sense of electromagnetism. Where does subjectivity reach its limit?

Carla-Magnusson
tomtrytostay wrote:
Carla 122. Sorry I took so long to answer beautiful.

Well it depends what you mean. Yes an animal exists. There are thoughts and feelings and behaviours present. All of these things are present and all a part of nature.

But does my life exist? No Carla there is no you to own anything.

All there is is nature.

Well, I own what I buy...  until I dont want it anymore... 

tomtrytostay
Carla you are my exception! I'll post you straight away. You're beautiful so I will!

It seems that way. And like I say it makes sense in evolutionary terms that we hold the position that I exists.

It makes us fight to survive and fight to keep mine.

The actually truth though Carla is that all any of us are in reality is nature.

By that I mean cells and chemicals and so on. Reacting to natural forces. Blarg talked about how far can we go in terms of establishing what's actually real. It's this far.

All that truly exists is natural materials naturally evolving through natural forces.

Those natural forces always have and always will exist.

The I, the whole concept of beings is false.
tomtrytostay
Not only do you not own what you see as your possessions you are them. You are the sun and the moon and the wind and the rain. The truth is its all one. Everything.

Consciousness is nature knowing itself
mdinnerspace

tomtrytostay wrote:

Welcome. I know it all. Really. I know what this whole thing is about. I want to share it with you. I'll post it in this forum and if anyone wants to talk about it we will and if no one does that's fine. This is the truth. All there is is nature. That's everything. Nature created the universe, natural materials exists because of natural forces and these materials are naturally evolved, period. The idea of self and soul is false. Being doesn't exist. All there is cells and chemicals. Even love is as a result of nature. Just a bunch of chemicals and chemical receptors. Beauty. Think of the sky. It's just a bunch of colours. Just a pattern. That we love makes us wrongly believe otherwise. Good evil right and wrong don't exist. Everything is just a result of causality. It all just is. It's all one too. Water isn't evil and nor are people. All there is is natural events, no supernatural occurrences at all. And guess what? You don't exist. There is no you. Never has been. All there is is nature. Meaning of life. Nothing is either meaningful or meaningless. It just is. This delusion of self tricks us into thinking otherwise. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!!!

mdinnerspace

"Water isn't evil and nor are people"

mdinnerspace

"Good evil right wrong don't exist"

"And guess what? You don't exist"