Tactic Trainer Problem

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MrKornKid

Here is the puzzle ID for a T/T problem I just don't understand and the few comments appear to share my opinion.  Could someone please explain the idea behind this one please.

0533098

Thanks in advance.

notmtwain

This is the problem.

White's last move Ne4 was a blunder that left his knight pinnable against his queen. After black's bishop pins the knight, white adds his own bishop to the defense of the knight, but then black piles on with his queen.

White has nothing left to add to the defense of the knight, so he decides that the position after getting two pieces for his queen is the best he can achieve. Perhaps you didn't see that white does get that second piece at the end for the queen.

The variations show that the computer thinks that this end position (after 15 Nxc5 Bxd3 and 16 Nxd3) is better than white would get if he moved his queen away from the pin with 15 Qc3 and just gave up the knight on e4.

MrKornKid

Thanks for the reply and when I have a few more moments I will review your comments along side the puzzle.

What I am not understanding is why not just give up the knight and save the queen?  Perhaps computers see it that way, but you as a player, would you walk the same path in a game?

notmtwain
MrKornKid wrote:

Thanks for the reply and when I have a few more moments I will review your comments along side the puzzle.

What I am not understanding is why not just give up the knight and save the queen?  Perhaps computers see it that way, but you as a player, would you walk the same path in a game?

The side comments are just the analysis that was posted along with the puzzle. You can review analysis like that on every puzzle you do. (You can just click through it.)

The analysis shows that the computer says the position evaluation is -3.63 if you follow the 10 move variation that starts with getting two pieces for the queen versus -4.39 if you start with a run with the queen to c3 and just give up the knight (and follow the rest of that 10 move variation).  

The evaluations for all these problems were done with what would be considered a weak 2500 rated engine nowadays. You might want to rerun the analysis with a stronger engine (which are rated above 3200 these days) and play with the resuling variations, trying various moves to see what the computer thinks will result.

I don't guarantee that you won't be even more confused, but that's how you start to really understand these positions.

NomadicKnight

notmtwain, can you explain what -3.63 means? I've had games analyzed and those numbers are gibberish to me at this point. I have no clue what they mean.

notmtwain
NomadicKnight wrote:

notmtwain, can you explain what -3.63 means? I've had games analyzed and those numbers are gibberish to me at this point. I have no clue what they mean.

In material value, pawns are judged to be worth 1 point, minor pieces 3, rooks 5 and queens 9. 

-3.63 means that black is considered to be a minor piece and a most of a pawn down. Evaluations are given to two decimal places-- in hundreths of a pawn.

Here's much more on it from WGM Natalia Pogonina- Chess Engines' Evaluations.

MrKornKid

So basicly the computer salvaged the 'best possible position."  What are the odds of a queen doing more damage then two bishops though?  Sorry Notm, I I think this is just a highly underrated puzzle then.  Because at this moment in time I cannot see an advantage, long or short. 

I truely believe most people on chess.com would keep the queen over 2 bishops.