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jhorlock
jhorlock
Feb 26, 2015
0
#1

8/8/2Rbk3/2r5/1K6/8/8/8 w - - 0 18/8/2Rbk3/2r5/1K6/8/8/8 w - -0 1

Feeling a bit frustrated - give me a few seconds to phrase the question

 OK so I know a little bit about Chess, but today I came across a situation I had never come accross before. 

I play chess a bit, and enjoy playing here, but I also run a chess club in my school.  However, I have 2 girls who are supposed to be very good - and who receive lessons from a master.

Today the one girl did a move which I don't believe was allowed but she claimed was an "absolute pin".  Now my understanding of an absolute pin, is that it is just a piece which is pinned as the king is behind it.

So the situation shown below is a simplified version of the problem.  White to move.

Her move, take the rook with the white king - she claimed the absolute pin means that she was not putting herself in check.  

I had never heard of such a thing.  I believe she was misguided, but if she is genuinely being taught by a grand master then she may know something I don't.

My logic is that putting yourself in check is the greater crime thus not allowed.

Can someone with more knowledge than me please comment.

baddogno
baddogno
Feb 26, 2015
0
#2

You're right; she's wrong.  The K simply can't put himself in check.  

EDIT:  Don't be too hard on her though.  I've seen way too many of these posts over the last few years.

Chesscoaching
Chesscoaching
Feb 26, 2015
0
#3

Kxc5 Bxc5 game ends there, black king can't be taken because the game is over.

Chesscoaching
Chesscoaching
Feb 26, 2015
0
#4

FIDE Handbook - Laws of Chess

Article 3: The moves of the pieces
   

3.9

The king is said to be 'in check' if it is attacked by one or more of the opponent's pieces, even if such pieces are constrained from moving to the square occupied by the king because they would then leave or place their own king in check. No piece can be moved that will either expose the king of the same colour to check or leave that king in check.
rayngrant
rayngrant
Show your flair!
Feb 26, 2015
0
#5

Totally illegal move. You cannot put yourself in check. Assuming that if you were allowed to do that and the opponent just captures your king, the immediate capture of white's king would end the game with black winning.

Chesscoaching
Chesscoaching
Feb 26, 2015
0
#6
 

No piece can be moved that will either expose the king of the same colour to check

Therefore, since the King taking rook move would expose the king to check under article 3.9:

The king is said to be 'in check' if it is attacked by one or more of the opponent's pieces, even if such pieces are constrained from moving to the square occupied by the king because they would then leave or place their own king in check.

The king would be attacked as stated under article 3.1

3.1

It is not permitted to move a piece to a square occupied by a piece of the same colour. If a piece moves to a square occupied by an opponent’s piece the latter is captured and removed from the chessboard as part of the same move. A piece is said to attack an opponent’s piece if the piece could make a capture on that square according to Articles 3.2 to 3.8.

A piece is considered to attack a square even if this piece is constrained from moving to that square because it would then leave or place the king of its own colour under attack.

Thus, the move is illegal. The FIDE handbook is located here:

http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=171&view=article
TChosen1
TChosen1
Feb 26, 2015
0
#7

Read the quote from the FIDE handbook.  It says the king can't move to somewhere where it's being ATTACKED by a piece. KxR means that the king is being ATTACKED by the bishop, and therefor illegal.

jhorlock
jhorlock
Feb 26, 2015
0
#8

Thank you everyone.  Very helpful.  Plus I was correct - which is always encouraging.  Unfortunately, now to deal with the fallout - which is that the girl went on to win the tournament game - and the matter was only drawn to my attention after the game ended.  So now I need to decide who wins, whether to call it a draw, make them rematch or what!  Arghh!  I'll probably ask the boy what he thinks is fairest.

kiwi-inactive
kiwi-inactive
Feb 26, 2015
0
#9
TChosen1 wrote:

Read the quote from the FIDE handbook.  It says the king can't move to somewhere where it's being ATTACKED by a piece. KxR means that the king is being ATTACKED by the bishop, and therefor illegal.

^^

kleelof
kleelof
Feb 26, 2015
0
#10

Yeah, kids can be pretty creative when filling-in the blanks in their knowledge.

wtbymike
wtbymike
Feb 26, 2015
0
#11

not allowed you would get their king first

Chesscoaching
Chesscoaching
Feb 26, 2015
0
#12

The following rules apply for illegal moves outside of rapidplay:

Appendix A. Rapidplay
A.1

A ‘Rapidplay’ game is one where either all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player; or the time allotted plus 60 times any increment is of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player.

Article 7: Irregularities
7.1

If an irregularity occurs and the pieces have to be restored to a previous position, the arbiter shall use his best judgement to determine the times to be shown on the chessclock. This includes the right not to change the clock times. He shall also, if necessary, adjust the clock’s move-counter.
7.2
  1. If during agame it is found that the initial position of the pieces was incorrect, the game shall be cancelled and a new game shall be played.
  2. If during a game it is found that the chessboard has been placed contrary to Article 2.1, the game shall continue but the position reached must be transferred to a correctly placed chessboard.
7.3

If a game has begun with colours reversed then it shall continue, unless the arbiter rules otherwise.
7.4

If a player displaces one or more pieces, he shall re-establish the correct position in his own time. If necessary, either the player or his opponent shall stop the chessclock and ask for the arbiter’s assistance. The arbiter may penalise the player who displaced the pieces.
7.5
  1. If during a game it is found that an illegal move has been completed, the position immediately before the irregularity shall be reinstated. If the position immediately before the irregularity cannot be determined, the game shall continue from the last identifiable position prior to the irregularity. Articles 4.3 and 4.7 apply to the move replacing the illegal move. The game shall then continue from this reinstated position. 
    If the player has moved a pawn to the furthest distant rank, pressed the clock, but not replaced the pawn with a new piece, the move is illegal. The pawn shall be replaced by a queen of the same colour as the pawn.
  2. After the action taken under Article 7.5.a, for the first completed illegal move by a player the arbiter shall give two minutes extra time to his opponent; for the second completed illegal move by the same player the arbiter shall declare the game lost by this player. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.

The following rules apply for illegal moves in rapidplay:

Appendix A. Rapidplay
A.1

A ‘Rapidplay’ game is one where either all the moves must be completed in a fixed time of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player; or the time allotted plus 60 times any increment is of more than 10 minutes but less than 60 minutes for each player.
A.2

Players do not need to record the moves.
A.3

The Competition Rules shall apply if

  1. one arbiter supervises at most three games and
  2. each game is recorded by the arbiter or his assistant and, if possible, by electronic means.
A.4

Otherwise the following apply:

  1. From the initial position, once ten moves have been completed by each player,
    1. no change can be made to the clock setting, unless the schedule of the event would be adversely affected.
    2. no claim can be made regarding incorrect set-up or orientation of the chessboard. In case of incorrect king placement, castling is not allowed. In case of incorrect rook placement, castling with this rook is not allowed.
  2. An illegal move is completed once the player has pressed his clock. If the arbiter observes this he shall declare the game lost by the player, provided the opponent has not made his next move. If the arbiter does not intervene, the opponent is entitled to claim a win, provided the opponent has not made his next move. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves. If the opponent does not claim and the arbiter does not intervene, the illegal move shall stand and the game shall continue. Once the opponent has made his next move, an illegal move cannot be corrected unless this is agreed by the players without intervention of the arbiter.
  3. To claim a win on time, the claimant must stop the chessclock and notify the arbiter. For the claim to be successful, the claimant must have time remaining on his own clock after the chessclock has been stopped. However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the claimant cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.
  4. If the arbiter observes both kings are in check, or a pawn on the rank furthest from its starting position, he shall wait until the next move is completed. Then, if the illegal position is still on the board, he shall declare the game drawn.
A.5

The Rules for a competition shall specify whether Article A.3 or Article A.4 shall apply for the entire event.