Disable FEN and PGN in online chess!

This website is teeming with cheaters and reporting and banning are not in my opinion the best strategy to avoid future cheaters. The solution (to eliminate a great majority of them) is simply to disable the FEN string and PGN links in ongoing games. They can appear only after the game is finished.

Think. How easy is it to copy a FEN string and analyse on an engine? Without it one will need to setup a position manually and with due time will realize the futility of his actions (or better yet, will become a better player and quit cheating).

Seriously, why would we need FEN and PGN in ongoing games?

That's not going to stop cheating one bit. They can simply keep a database of their games and they have the correct position after one updated move. That's probably what they already do.

aza, are you referring to live or correspondence? In live they probably just start the engine when the game starts and enter the moves manually on every turn as BDP said, while in correspondence time is not a factor...

I think merely copying won't help, as the opponent may play a different move than the best suggested move by an engine. Also, if somebody wins always in online-chess only but not so in other game-formats, then we will know from his profile. But,  I still agree with azatartsakh.

OK let's look at it from another angle. Why do we need FEN or PGN in an unfinished game? 

This is open invitation for abuse.

We need FEN/PGN so we can save our analysis in other programs.

If the opponent makes an unpredicted move, you just add that to the game score and hit 'go' on the engine again.

I sometimes like to see what"s really going on in some of my friends' (or top rated players') games. They shouldn't completely abandon it. Maybe just for players, but not for outside viewers?

Hi azatar.  I think your idea is reasonable.  It may prevent some cheaters that now would need to set up the board for engine analysis.  But if majority of cheaters do what BidDoggProblem says then it would be just a dent.   Since I do not assist my play with engines nor know anybody that cheats it is hard to tell how the majority of cheaters operate here at correspondence-chess.com.   Still, considering your initiative goes in the right direction it would be a valid try.  Cheers.

Hey MSC157.  Good point.  I have analysed ongoing games with an engine to check what is happening, for my private purposes only.

If people are cheating in turn based chess, then so be it. It wont help them improve and it means they play good moves and you will need to caclulate more in depth, therefore improve your calculation skills for when you play real opponents. I have never suspected any of my opponents of cheating in any turn based game anyway.

azatartsakh, if someone wants to cheat using a chessbot, he does not need the fen, he reads the dom of the document.

I need PGN to simulate my past interesting game by Game Editor and then publish them to the forum. Ok, for example:

http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=732278209

WhatIsThisHereNow wrote:

azatartsakh, if someone wants to cheat using a chessbot, he does not need the fen, he reads the dom of the document.

or he could take the easy way out and just type up a FEN from looking at the board. :P

According to the rules of turn-based chess, the use of databases containing master games is allowed, and no player would want to setup the position from scratch every time he/she is searching for an idea or novelty in master games.

Also, players might wish to copy the PGN or FEN string to note ideas and alternative lines in their own game databases that they use in post-game analysis.

The idea of disabling FEN/PGN in turn-based chess is just a silly one.

TJBChess the key word in your comment is "post game analysis". Either you don't know what you are talking about or you agree with me: FEN should be allowed after the game is finished 

Most players that are playing turn-based chess usually have more than one game running at a time.  They play in multiple tournaments etc.

Ideally one would need to note ideas for post-game analysis while you are playing, otherwise you might forget them.  Some of these games last for days (even months), and it would not be easy to remember one's thought process on every step of every game.  And then there is my point of referencing master game databases and opening books.

As LongIslandMark (and several others) pointed out, if people want to cheat, they will.  Disabling useful features for those who play an honest game would not make any sense.

i say having the fen right onscreen makes it too easy to cheat.  I don't see the big deal in having it as an option when you start a game.  

Why can't they make it an option?

Well, now there's an option to save analysis and annotatuons withing the game. So PGN and FEN are not needed for players.

Maybe make it available for everyone, not just diamond members, and then abandon fen and pgn options?