Tactics Trainer encourages blitz, not growth

I'm pretty sure this topic has been covered here numerous times, but I'll give it a try anyway. I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, though, so I'm sorry if this post in the wrong place.

I've done maybe 1500 tactics exercises with the tactics trainer and I have felt I've improved slightly. The tactics are useful and sometimes the solution is actually quite deep - the player has to read several variations 5-6 moves deep, considering all sorts of moves. What pains me, however, is the blitzy nature of the program.

First thing is the timer. I quit using it a long time ago mostly due to two issues. First of all, the timer gives a hint of what kind of a solution to look for. If it's only twenty seconds or so, there must be a hanging piece or a mate-in-one somewhere. If it's five minutes, there most likely isn't. The second issue with the timer is that - for me - it encouraged me to push randomly for an intuitive move instead of calmly calculating the position to the end; all for some points in Tactics Trainer... which, in the end, have absolutely nothing to do with my chess skills. Not to say that they don't correlate, but Tactics Trainer points won't win me any tournaments. The ability to solve tactics does - and panicky clicking in the hope of a lucky punch doesn't help with that.

Secondly there's the system upon which the points awarded are based. Considering that in any non-blitz game a player has typically several minutes to get used to the position - remembering that the same tactical themes are usually present throughout several moves during a game - the time limit in most tactics is, in my opinion, very tight. The player is given a random position and asked to immediately recognize a given tactical aspect - say, a four-move mating sequence - and if he takes ten minutes solving it, he isn't awarded points. But let's say he has a good intuition about a couple of those moves, or he simply guesses them right - failing the other two, as he hasn't seen the solution - he is awarded some points! Because he did it QUICK, and that's the point of Tactics trainer. You don't need to solve the problem even correctly, you just have to get it "somewhat" in that direction, just as long as you're really fast.

Now, I understand that this serves a purpose. The points awarding system in Tactics Trainer serves as a grading system - more skilled players see the solutions more quickly and therefore get points easier. However, I do believe that the current system doesn't encourage the player to sit down, focus and find the best moves there are - since we all do like those points, don't we? Tactics Trainer, as it is, encourages quick decisions required in blitz chess, not deep calculating.

And as everything anyone says becomes more believable with a quote from a famous chess master, I'll quote Bobby Fischer: "Blitz chess kills your ideas."

I'm not saying the Tactics Trainer should be completely changed, but I would like to see at least an opportunity to be graded by the number of problems solved correctly - in other words, a high pass rate - instead of the number of correct moves one has made under serious time pressure. This shouldn't be too much to ask.

Any thoughts?

I agree with you completely. 

Agree with all of this - and so I don't use the TT on this site any more. The other thing that annoyed me about the TT here is that you could find a natural looking mate in 4, and lose points because there is a mate in 3. How many people, when they see a forced mate in a game, then continue looking to try to find a shorter mate?

Ive heard multiple strong players saying things such as, "if you dont see the basis of the tactic within 3 minutes you are unlikely to find it [in an OTB tournament game..not TT]".

Having endless time to correctly solve a problem isnt realistic either, in a tournament you DONT KNOW theresa winning tactics and after  few minutes will pass on. Therefore i think the timer is usually fairly accurate.

I love and hate the timer, so now I mostly do my tactics traning on a site where I can choose one way or another.

Fear_Itself, that does represent a point. However, don't you think that a player would learn more from a puzzle one has solved from scratch by oneself than a ready solution - "oh, that's how". How many people actually bother reading the other possible lines after the one solution has been given - the lines that are necessary for understanding the problem?

I'm not saying TT is useless as it is. I'm merely talking about what it encourages and what it does for one's chess skills. I believe - remembering that my opinion might not be that valuable - a player will develop faster if he's given enough time to solve the problems he's given.

Let me add that 3 minutes on TT is plenty of time; usually it's way less than that. ;)

i totally agree they should make 2 tactics trainer one for blitz and one not time based. It can have the same puzzles but just without time, i mean if its an easy puzzle the difficulty will drop anyway and if its hard it will rise.

I dont care if i get minust points if i do mate in 4 because there is a mate in 3. I mean tactics trainer is really  fun but for more serious learning they definetly should make one without time.

You do have a point. Personally i kinda do both, i do some TT out of books when im on the train and then i do timed TT here.

For a couple of years I used to parrot the "company" line every time this thread came up (and there are a LOT of unhappy TT users).  You know how it goes, the TT here is designed to foster pattern recognition not calculation ability.  What a load of crap; can't believe I used to actually spout that nonsense.  Pattern recognition is a good and necessary component of problem solving but the TT here is simply designed wrong.  It rewards (and trains) the wrong response to problem solving.  Over and over again I see problems that require deep calculation being "solved" by users who jump on the first likely fork and then complain that the solution is too "easy" when in fact they didn't have a clue as to what was going on in the problem.  Meanwhile someone who works it out but takes too much time gets a minus score?  Yeah, that's just the kind of negative reinforcement I want in my training....

I completely agree with Patient, working throgh complicated combinational variations, is a long way for must of us; and in real games there often are secondary solutions.

You can still have it rated, without actually being able to see the clock, thats the best option for me. I don't worry about time, if I fail I fail, if I lose points I lose points.

To me its about solving the problem only, granted I don't necessarily agree with how they come up with some of those times for some levels, but its based on how others have done on the puzzle (rating and time).

How anyone can calculate a 5 or even 6 move mate in under 2 minutes in some of those positions, is unbelieveable to me. I can only say 1200 and 1300 and even 1400 players used never offer me much of a problem OTB, now I struggle with online at the same levels, so I guess people are getting much better than they once were.

Petrosian said that if you don't see a tactical idea in the first minute you are not likely to see it.  Euwe said that tactics is seeing, and strategy is thinking.  The idea of the tactics trainer is pattern recognition.  When OP talked about immediately seeing the tactical aspect of a position he hit the idea on the head, that is exactly what the tactical trainer is trying to develop.  When using the tactics trainer quantity is more important that quality.  If you are not using the timer, you're missing the whole idea of tactics trainer.

on a site I use you are given 20 minutes to score 9 problems right, and allowed 2 mistakes.

seeing is one thing, but being able to calculate everything is another. Basically its just rewards risk and listening to gut feeling and not calculation.

I don't like the timer either, so I have set the TT to unrated. I haven't tried it yet, but I believe that solves the timer problem.

Let me start by noting that I am a frequent TT user; I have done over 10000 problems, and my rating is around 2500 right now. I can honestly say that TT has been extremely beneficial, perhaps the most beneficial resource on chess.com to improving my game. That being said, one really has to know how to use it "correctly" to get the most out of it.

I think it's a good decision to quit using the timer, especially if it's impeding your ability to take the time to solve the problem. We all like points and good ratings because it feels much more validating to achieve a good score. But if you really want to improve your chess, ignoring your rating is the best thing to do. In fact, if you ignore your rating and focus solely on finding the best moves, I think it's much more likely your rating will improve over time anyway. I personally still use the timer because it doesn't really bother me, but I still take as long as I need to solve the problem even if I know I will lose ratings points for taking too long; it does take some self-restraint, so if you don't have that then you should definitely remove the timer.

I think TT is a really important part of one's chess learning because it opens up new tactical and conceptual ideas for your arsenal. It also gives you practice in evaluating any given position, which is really important in chess. When one makes the decision to simply quit using TT because they don't like the rating system, the timer, etc. I think they're abandoning perhaps the best tool chess.com has to offer.

Chess itself rewards risks and intuition.  There are exercises for calculations, but that is not the role of a tactics trainer.  The key to initial improvement in chess is constant repetition of basic tactics.  Once tactical patterns are embedded in your mind, then you can practise calculations, but until you can instantly recognize tactical motifs endless calculating of if I go here, and he goes here, gets you nowhere.

the problem unrated tactics trainer is that you dont get the problems based on your rating. I mean why not just make 2 tactics trainer 1 with timer and 1 without.

AGREE.i hate chess.com tactics trainer because of timer