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Black system against white first moves


  • 16 months ago · Quote · #1

    tonylu75491

    I want to learn a black first move which is compatible against e4, d4 and c4 and is not too theoritical. I have been thinking about g6 and d6. Are they any good?

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #2

    chesshole

    i recommend 1...nf6  this is a flexible first move that works against everything.  if white plays 1. c4 or 1.d4 you will get some kind of queens pawn game and against 1. e4 you will usually get an alekhine opening.  i have found that i have been able to get to familiar comfortable positions out of the opening as black using this strategy

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #3

    tonylu75491

    Isn't nf6 theortical? Right now I'm playing the nimzo/queen's indian and it requires some study. Nf6 against d4, c4 and e4 have different types of positions. I'm looking for a one-size-fits-all move which utilise similar strategies against all white first moves.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #4

    ruben72d

    if you're looking of such system i would suggest 1... b6 (owen's defense/ english defense) on everything. This is not particular good and some will even call it bad but it's playable and fits your condition of a one size fits all move.

    +: there's very little theory and your opponents are probably not aware that this is a move. Also you can play it as white with 1 b3 the larsen opening.

    -: with normal play black has a serious space disadvantage so be aware of this.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #5

    Oran_perrett

    ignore any advice that 1...nf6 is a "system" that is the same against any first move because it's not it's highly theoretical.

    b6 g6 d6 are your immediate options and b6 is inferior to these and harder to play IMO.

    d6 is probably easier than g6 because it doesn't commit quite as much on the first move. the "universal defence" is what you're after i think

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #6

    chesshole

    Oran_perrett wrote:

    ignore any advice that 1...nf6 is a "system" that is the same against any first move because it's not it's highly theoretical.

    b6 g6 d6 are your immediate options and b6 is inferior to these and harder to play IMO.

    d6 is probably easier than g6 because it doesn't commit quite as much on the first move. the "universal defence" is what you're after i think

    what do you mean ignore ...Nf6 because it is highly theoretical?  There are only so many choices white can make.  That means you can force white into about 6 different variations that you know and are comfortable with, for example I force my opponents into variations of Alekhine's defense or the Queen's Gambit Declined, Classical Variation.  The pirc is worse than alekhine's defense.  Of course you are not playing the same opening each time, even if you play ...d6 you can't play the same system every time.  

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #7

    Oran_perrett

    the pirc is not worse than alekhine's defence that's an absurd suggestion. d6 is the first opening move which is most system-like. alekhine's defence is far harder to play than 1. d6 systems. d6 is far more what the OP is looking for than nf6

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #8

    unterseegoat

    1...b6 is really not as bad as people make it out to be. You just need a good plan on what to do and I think most people play it like idiots thinking they will just feel their way through it with no prep and no study. Like any opening at not GM level if you just know what you are trying to do it is more then effective enough to play. 

    The Pirc is totally a joke though. People just need to learn to laugh and not take it so seriously all the time.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #9

    chesshole

    Oran_perrett wrote:

    the pirc is not worse than alekhine's defence that's an absurd suggestion. d6 is the first opening move which is most system-like. alekhine's defence is far harder to play than 1. d6 systems. d6 is far more what the OP is looking for than nf6

    saying the pirc is worse than alekhine's defence is not absurd lol.  alekhine's defence isn't that hard to play, basically only the four pawns attack can get tricky as black and plus you benefit from most white players not being very familiar with the alekhine.  i have had many games with the alekhine defence as black where i fork white's bishop and knight with a pawn on e4 because white played a natural looking knight development at the wrong time.

    pirc is so easy to play against with white.  just set up a perfect pawn center with e4 and d4, develop your knights, maybe put your bishops on e3 and d3.  There is no such thing as a universal 'system'  All openings rely on some theory, but with ...Nf6 you can force your opponent into lines that you are comfortable with and you have better attacking chances than if you play the ugly looking ...d6

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #10

    DrSpudnik

    1...e6

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #11

    chesshole

    DrSpudnik wrote:

    1...e6

    i thought about suggesting that move as well, it is a nice flexible opening can transpose into a French defence or a Queen's gambit Declined classical variation.  I actually used to play 1...e6 against every white first move, but I switched to 1...Nf6 because I found I prefer the Alekhine defence to the French defence.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #12

    Oran_perrett

    i'm not arguing anymore if you want to make your life really hard by playing Nf6 against e4 then be my guest but most people will not recommend alekhine's defence at below expert level.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #13

    chesshole

    Oran_perrett wrote:

    i'm not arguing anymore if you want to make your life really hard by playing Nf6 against e4 then be my guest but most people will not recommend alekhine's defence at below expert level.

    Well if most people think that way, then it must be true right?  Here, this might help you out next time you are trying to make a point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

     

    Anyways, Nf6 is a strong first move for black against e4, it doesn't make life 'really hard.'  You give no examples about Nf6 making life 'really hard' anyways.  You do make a good decision to decide to not argue anymore, since you can't make any points of your own or address any of my points.  Better luck next time Wink

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #14

    SaharanKnight

    1..e6.  I go for 1..e6 especially against 1.d4.  With 1.e4 e6, one may counter e6 with 2.Nf3 which may not be Black's idea and may get into the French defense/wing gambit or else the exchange variation.

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #15

    opticRED

    Universal system for black that is not too theoretical

    how about this one? 1...Nc6. I haven't read the book but they say its good

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #16

    chessBBQ

    why not learn proper mainlines?

    Im sure the amount of study will be the same .

    It's not like 1 move will narrow down everything because it will branch out anyway.

    If you are not ready for some theoretical knowledge,Im sure you can find alot of simple systems within  those mainlines

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #17

    sisu

    Let's make it happen!

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #18

    blumzovich

    You could try 1...c6 against any of the above, with the idea of following up with 2...d5.  This would entail learning the Caro Kann and/or the Slav which are both nice tries, but "theoretical"

  • 16 months ago · Quote · #19

    DrSpudnik

    Everything is eventually theoretical. There is no quick fix to chess.


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