In HFZ metric, the distance between Nimzo 1.e4 Nc6 and Alekhine 1.e4 Nf6 is equal to zero.
Distance between openings
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Mar 13, 2011
0
#2
Yigor wrote:
In HFZ metric, the distance between Nimzo 1.e4 Nc6 and Alekhine 1.e4 Nf6 is equal to zero.
Doesn't this indicate that this distance calculation isn't very meaningful?
Mar 13, 2011
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#4
Loomis wrote:
Yigor wrote:
In HFZ metric, the distance between Nimzo 1.e4 Nc6 and Alekhine 1.e4 Nf6 is equal to zero.
Doesn't this indicate that this distance calculation isn't very meaningful?
It depends on your purpose. Being useless for strength estimations, it's useful for classification purposes. In my very simple example, Alekhine and Nimzo have the relative height zero above the common irreversible stem e4. So, both are in the same category of KP openings.
Mar 14, 2011
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#5
Estragon wrote:
I'll have whatever Yigor's drinking . . .
LoL I drink whole spectra of alcoholic beverages, hot and spicy Bloody Mary is a good starter!
Yigor wrote:
Loomis wrote:
Yigor wrote:
In HFZ metric, the distance between Nimzo 1.e4 Nc6 and Alekhine 1.e4 Nf6 is equal to zero.
Doesn't this indicate that this distance calculation isn't very meaningful?
It depends on your purpose. Being useless for strength estimations, it's useful for classification purposes. In my very simple example, Alekhine and Nimzo have the relative height zero above the common irreversible stem e4. So, both are in the same category of KP openings.
I think it shows that this metric is also not very useful for classification purposes. Why should Nimzo and Alekhine be in the same category? They are very different openings.
Mar 15, 2011
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#7
echecs06 wrote:
Yigor, I hope you are drinking a good "pinot noir"!
Yeah, I like pinot noir wines, in particular, burgundy.
Mar 15, 2011
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#8
echecs06 wrote:
What about the "pays d'OC"?
These are usually cheap wines for every day.
Mar 15, 2011
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#9
linksspringer wrote:
They will diverge quickly in the mainlines: 1.e4 Nc6 2.d4 d5 and 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 etc., so I suppose their "distance" will grow quickly too.
But there are also transpositions, eg 1.e4 Nc6 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e5 Nd5 4.d4 d6 and 1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.Nf3 Nc6 (Haakert variation).
Good answer and example of convergence and even confluence from different openings, thanx Links!
Mar 15, 2011
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#10
For HFZ-equivalent openings, it's possible to introduce the secondary distance as the minimum of plies necessary to connect them by reversible moves.
Mar 15, 2011
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#11
Yigor wrote:
Estragon wrote:
I'll have whatever Yigor's drinking . . .
LoL I drink whole spectra of alcoholic beverages, hot and spicy Bloody Mary is a good starter!
Remember to include a thick piece of celery!
Mar 15, 2011
0
#12
nathandewinter wrote:
damn u must be real smart dude
Thanx for da compliment.
Mar 15, 2011
0
#13
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
Remember to include a thick piece of celery!
In France, rare barmen who know how to concoct Bloody Mary serve it with celery salt.
Mar 16, 2011
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#14
Yigor wrote:
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
Remember to include a thick piece of celery!
In France, rare barmen who know how to concoct Bloody Mary serve it with celery salt.
Wait, are you in France or Russia? Or are you originally from Russia, and now in France?
Are you Spassky? Or do you know him?
I go through a very similar bout of confusion every time I see a bottle of Grey Goose.
Mar 16, 2011
0
#16
derek2468 wrote:
But then I suppose that is just a Mary is it ?
Probably.
KID: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3
QID: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 b6
Common irreversible stem (CIS): c4 and d4 for white.
Relative heights over CIS: 1 for KID (corresponding to g6) and 2 for QID (corresponding to b6 and e6).
So, the distance between KID and QID is equal to 1+2=3.
Mar 16, 2011
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#17
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
Wait, are you in France or Russia? Or are you originally from Russia, and now in France?
Are you Spassky? Or do you know him?
Yeah, I'm Russian living in Toulouse ... no relations to Spassky LoL.
Mar 18, 2011
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#18
Let's calculate the distance between main/traditional lines in Najodrorf and Ruy Lopez after 10 moves.
1.e4 (h=2) c5 (h=4) 2.Nf3 d6 (h=5) 3.d4 (h=7) cxd4 (h=9) 4.Nxd4 (h=10) Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 (h=11) 6.Bg5 e6 (h=12) 7.f4 (h=14) Be7 8.Qf3 Qc7 9.O-O-O (h=17) Nbd7 10.g4 (h=19) b5 (h=21)
1.e4 (h=2) e5 (h=4) 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 (h=5) 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O (h=8) Be7 6.Re1 b5 (h=10) 7.Bb3 d6 (h=11) 8.c3 (h=12) O-O (h=15)9.h3 (h=16) Na5 10.Bc2 c5 (h=18)
The common irreversible stem (CIS) is of height 9:
Mar 18, 2011
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#19
So, after 10 moves,
distance(Najdorf,Ruy Lopez) = height(Najdorf) + height(Ruy Lopez) - 2 x height(CIS) = 21+18-2x9 = 21
Mar 18, 2011
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#20
What the heck are you guys talking about? The distance between this and that opening?
So, this information works like MapQuest or Google Maps, where I will know how far it is in HFZ meters, whatever that is, to travel from one bar to another to play a different chess opening?
Layman's terms, please.
I will consider the distance in HFZ metric introduced here
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/height-of-an-opening
Let's consider, for example Ruy Lopez and Najdorf. First of all, we should find the maximal common position (up to reversible moves) from each both openings can be obtained. The only common irreversible move is e4. The relative height of Ruy Lopez wrt e4 is equal to 2. The relative height of Najdorf wrt e4 is 9. So the distance between two openings is 9+2=11.
Definition. The distance between two openings in HFZ metric is equal to the sum of their relative heights wrt maximal common position.