Opening Names not ECO-friendly

With the current domination of chess by Indians, the AICF (All India Chess Federation) announced yesterday that it is seeking to supersede the existing ECO (Encyclopaedia of Chess Openings) nomenclature with a more logical, Indian-based alternative: CLIPCLOP (Chess Logical Indian Proposal – Clearly Labelled Openings Protocol). A few examples are shown below, extracted from Table 1 of the AICF proposal: Opening a Clearer Era in Chess Openings which was presented to the ICF (International Chess Federation) on Tuesday.

 Table 1: Opening a Clearer Era in Chess Openings {extract}

Response to the proposal so far can best be described as “lukewarm”. Mr. Drdocmd of the USCF (United States Chess Federation) – in a tone of guarded welcome, was quoted as saying: “I already use a similar scheme. I have denoted my  1. d4 d5 2. c4 opening – as: “Queen's Prawn Suicide / Kamikaze Manuever”.

“In any case”, he went on, “the future of chess usage is in the hands of internet chess sites such as chess.con [sic], not in the hands of individual national chess federations.”

A man with too much free time on his hands.

King "Prawn"

TiagoDevesa wrote: King "Prawn"

 I happen to think the AICF have got it about right. The present scheme is unstructured and counter-intuitive. The decision to go with "Prawn" rather than Pawn both disambiguates from the ECO and lends a uniquely Indian flavour. You can scoff all you like.

1. e4 Na8 must be a misprint. (I guess, 1. e4 Na6.)

Funny thing.... Let's see how many strong GM's that AICF can hire to be a competition to ECO. (I doubt they are able in near future)

Is a French e4 e6 called a "triple king prawn"?  Not trying to be snotty, just trying to get the hang of it.  I see some virtue to numbers, and some to description, but their "horse ahead left right bolted" business is confusing.  I would prefer "double king prawn left horse right" for Nimzowitsch e4 Nc6, but would most prefer a logical code such as simply saying "e4 Nc6"

PS editting

Realize I am belaboring a point, but there is too much cryptic arcana in their "clear descriptions".  Why does the Caro Kann's ...c6 rate a "Queen to go" and not the Sicilian's ...c5, or for that matter, an e pawn move?  I would like a clear and internationally accepted system.

Howzabout: There are only 20 first moves for either player and 26 letters. Pawns to their 3rd ranks are A-H and to their 4th are I-P.  Na3 (or ...Na6)=Q through Nh3 (or ...Nh6) =T.  So e4 e5=MM and e4 Nc6= MR.  Quick efficient and easy to decode if one forgets.

I hope that posts 6 & 7 are (failed) attempts at humour!

I know I will get eaten up for this remark.

Evil_Homer wrote: I hope that posts 6 & 7 are (failed) attempts at humour! I know I will get eaten up for this remark.

 Justifiably so, in my opinion.

1. "hope <what Evil_Homer> originally wrote before he edited it!>" - religious posts are verboten.
2. "posts 6 & <what Evil_Homer> originally wrote before he edited it!!>" is ungrammatical.

hmmmm?

mandelshtam wrote: 1. e4 Na8 must be a misprint. (I guess, 1. e4 Na6.) ...

 You're right again! Thanks. I scanned the article in so it must have been a typo in the original report.

Escapest_Pawn wrote: Is a French e4 e3 called a "triple king prawn"?  Not trying to be snotty, just trying to get the hang of it.  I see some virtue to numbers, and some to description, but their "horse ahead left right bolted" business is confusing.  I would prefer "double king prawn left horse right" for Nimzowitsch e4 Nc6, but would most prefer a logical code such as simply saying "e4 Nc6"

 The algebraic code is always available. It is precise and logical but not all that easy (for everyone) to memorise or relate to.

CLIPCLOP is far from perfect - but it does have the advantage of being pictorial. The horse ahead, horse right, horse left and horse bolted!(i.e. far left) idea becomes immediately obvious when you see the position on a chess board.

Escapest_Pawn wrote: Is a French e4 e3 called a "triple king prawn"?  Not trying to be snotty, just trying to get the hang of it.  "

 This is an important point. Double and Quad Prawn are unambiguous, but Triple could refer to either 1.e4 e6 (C00: French Defense) or 1.e3 e5 ( - ). I hope the Indian scheme isn't half-baked, after all. Do bear in mind, it's only a proposal at this stage. I imagine the AICF will welcome comments and suggestions.

If the historical naming could be incorporated, it would help the take up. They may be using something like this:

1.e4 e6   Triple King Prawn Bechamel  (C00: French Defense)

1.e3 e5   Triple King Prawn                  ( - ).

आप नहीं हैं हास्यास्पद है !

हमें खुशी है आप अंग्रेजी साम्राज्यवादी हमारे देश से बाहर हैं !

नौकरी मिल , कला !

I have taken the time to learn the proper names for the chess openings, and I study them as such. I think this new system will only confuse those of us who have done so. I would not support this change. I know what an alekhine's, a pirc, a nimzo-indian are already. It is really not hard to learn the old system, there is absolutely no point in giving these openings a bunch of goof-ball names.

Maybe this belongs in the Fun With Chess forum? It can't be serious. The horsey hooves go CLIPCLOP. Jumbo prawns served chilled with cocktail sauce.

Escapest_Pawn wrote: Realize I am belaboring a point, but there is too much cryptic arcana in their "clear descriptions".  Why does the Caro Kann's ...c6 rate a "Queen to go" and not the Sicilian's ...c5, or for that matter, an e pawn move?  I would like a clear and internationally accepted system.

I guess the Caro-Kann has been labelled as "Queen to go" because moving the c-pawn releases Black's Queen.

Is   1.e4 c6 classed as Sicilian or merely the beginning of a Sicilian?  

1.e4 c5 (B20: Sicilian Defense) similarly releases Black's Queen - as you point out. How should the AICF label it?

Escapest_Pawn wrote: ... I would like a clear and internationally accepted system.

Howzabout: There are only 20 first moves for either player and 26 letters. Pawns to their 3rd ranks are A-H and to their 4th are I-P.  Na3 (or ...Na6)=Q through Nh3 (or ...Nh6) =T.  So e4 e5=MM and e4 Nc6= MR.  Quick efficient and easy to decode if one forgets.

 It's certainly concise. The main problem for any scheme that tells you only the first few moves for white and for black - it doesn't tell you much.

Here's a comparison of the four schemes:

This exposes a serious weakness in CLIPCLOP. The handedness is relative to the colour: so white's left is black's right.

Replacing the B25 tag by MKRR would certainly do no harm.

Because of bishop moves and knight and pawn's 2nd move possibilities, my simple capital letter system fails rapidly after 1st move combinations. 

I think the essential problem is that ClipClop is attempting to replace ECO which is generally used as an efficient (ie few charactors) indexing or cataloging system.  ClipClop seems better suited to replacing the proper names, not all of which are commonly known.  I have never heard of the Van't Kruijs, or Mieses, and although I once peaked at the Lemming, did not retain its identity.  (Incidently, shouldn't "queen prawn" be d3 and double qp be d4?  I do remember my trip to India fondly.)  I typo all the time but would proof read if published.  Things are not that standard in conversation. When I first heard of the Grob in Horowitz's "Chess Openings" tome, it was called "the Spike", now, I believe, the Spike is a variation of the Grob.  Even in the U.S., there are a few names for the Wilkes Barre etc. and I am sure Europe calls it by still other names. So something like ClipClop might have some sort of conversational use. 

I don't see ClipClop as being useful for indexing purposes, or to challenge ECO. I don't particularly like ECO and remember only about 4 codes, but it does take popular openings through there defining moves even if 10-12 moves long and gives them unique 3 digit codes. A huge disadvantage is they do have to be remembered and are not decodable without reference.

So the solution to an indexing system, is to catalog openings according to there defining positions as openings often transpose, and develop a system of efficiently describing the defining board position in a way that can be alphabetized and/or enumerated, and can be decyphered without memorization.

Such is a real problem and will require both ingenuity and work.  I am all for it, but "not tonight, I have a headache."

Pegrin wrote: Maybe this belongs in the Fun With Chess forum? It can't be serious. The horsey hooves go CLIPCLOP. Jumbo prawns served chilled with cocktail sauce.

I find it curious that you associate Béchamel with a chilled cocktail sauce. I know it primarily as a hot, cheese sauce. It is undeniably very versatile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A9chamel_sauce

It will be interesting to see how the AICF apply temperature within their protocol: spicy ingredients obviously for a fiery opening like the Danish Gambit; chilled for Guico Piano perhaps.

Some things just don't need to be "improved". Remember the "improved" Coca Cola fiasco?