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Fred Defense

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CatoTheElder
And what if white doesn't chase around with the queen and develops pieces instead?

Like 3Bc4+?

Evil_Homer
Davidmingming wrote: What about "Fred's Boungcloud Defense"?

Perfect.


Skeptikill
pompom wrote:

 surely that game by pompom is a joke.........?its just some guy placing his Queen in terrible places everymove allowing black to gain initiative every single move!surely any decent player would easily know not to do that and just make things simple for themselves. i declare a challenge for the fred defenser in a long game!unrated if your scared of losing your precious rating points!


checkmayte
WOW, that was intense, and very enlightning...thank you.
jonloop

Wikipedia has an entry for this!

There is unbelievably a main line for this opening:

1. e4 f5
2. exf5 Nf6
3. d4 d5
4. Bd3

According to Wikipedia:

"With careful play, White can often gain a substantial advantage by simply playing defensively and not attempting any mating attacks until the late middlegame/early endgame. White is often correct to castle queenside to avoid Black's kingside development."

The line shown by Davidmingming ( 1. e4 f5 2. ... Kf7?!) is called the Southern Fred

The continuation 3. Qh5+ is called the Mao Tse Tung Attack. After

3... g6
4. fxg6 Kg7
5. gxh7 Rxh7
6. Qg4+ Kh8

according to Wikipedia "Although Black has sacrificed two pawns, he has superior development and attacking potential on the kingside."

So basically, it seems that with 1... f5  2. exf5, Black is in all sorts of trouble. White's plan is to just develop normally and then attack Black later in the game, when the extra White pawn and exposed Black kingside are definite advantages for White.

With the Southern Fred I guess that White should just leave the Black king stranded and develop attacking chances (maybe 3. d4). The fact that Black is a pawn down, has an exposed king and no chances of castling will doom Black to failure.

On the other hand, if White gets a bit greedy and helps Black to manually castle (as in the Mao Tse Tung Attack), then although Black has lost 2 pawns the kingside rook is very powerful and can start early attacks against White. But White is under no obligation to play 3. Qh5+, and anyway I think that Black looks pretty bad after 6... Kh8  - White develops naturally with 7. Nf3 and later on will castle queenside, and the extra pawns and exposed Black king will determine the game

I guess that this works quite well in Blitz games, and against beginners or even medium strength players who can see that it is an inferior opening and try too hard to prove it, instead of sitting back and developing naturally 


jonloop
Who wants to have a bit of fund and play in a Fred tournament? I've set one up, so let me know and I'll send you an invite
KillaBeez
As long as it is not rated
jonloop
KillaBeez wrote: As long as it is not rated

 It's not rated


gloryglorymanunited
I know somebody who played this opening in blitz games, and believed this line to be called the "crippled spine"
jonloop
The Fred is alive and filling up, so send me a message before the places are gone!
BirdBrain

Hey, I have given this idea some thought in the past, seeing that I am a 1...f5 person normally, and wanted to understand not only its strengths, but also the weaknesses.  I think the 2...Kf7 lines are junk...why would you want to run the king around with your moves.  The idea behind e4 f5 is to displace the pawn and put White out of book lines early.  If you are playing this to win material, that is crazy...it is a gambit, and you have to play it in gambit fashion. 

Here are some ideas for you...

e4 f5 exf Nf6 and if White wants to continue into the d4 d5 Bd3 lines, you need to hit back hard with Nc6-Qd6-bishop-0-0-0.  On the kingside, prepare g6, and it is a purposeful pawn sac with ideas of opening both the g and h-files for attack on Black's kingside.  This opening is designed for those who love tactics.  And if after d4 d5 Bd3 Nc6 White wants to switch to Bb5 ideas, then he is down a tempo and you can still castle.  I wouldn't recommend playing this under time controls unless you really know what you are doing.


srn347

Fred defense can be used as a slightly weaker kings gambit(the only weakness being that the one less tempo removes the e7-e5 pawn push). Also, boungcloud is not bad either, as it unsettles the opponent, attacks with an uncapturable piece, and avoids all sorts of early mates(smothered mate, scholers mate, legal mate, etc).

5-cell
CatoTheElder ha scritto:
And what if white doesn't chase around with the queen and develops pieces instead?

Like 3Bc4+?

Then white is doing the right thing.