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Is it possible to become a very strong player without reading books?

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Bartleby73

So one of my chess tutors, a FIDE 2000+ player, claims that he has never looked into a chess book as he finds them boring. Is that possible?  I think he is making this up. Hard to imagine that you play chess for that long and at his level without ever having read a chess book. 

AndyClifton

It used to be impossible.  Now though with computers, online play, video tutorials, etc etc...sure, I'll buy that.

DrCheckevertim

Sure. I mean, this website isn't a book right?

Bartleby73

sure, but I think he is a bit too old to have all his chess wisdom from the internet.

bronsteinitz

Lets go for the columbo approach here. How can he find them boring without having looked in them? Well, what do you think? Have we identified a sneaky natural raw talent that reads books but wants to give the impression that he is the dude of chess?

Popcorn179

Books are one way we contain and communicate information, but it is always second hand in comparison to actual human interaction. It's always more fun to learn by playing. Being able to play various random players from all over the world means you can see all different styles of openings, strategies and play, which was the kind of thing that books were good for back before the internet boom. Various demographics would be used to various play styles in the same way accents evolve.

Surely you can still learn things from books. But you should always be reading what you're interested in. Don't force yourself to study a boring old chess book because you think you ought to, when you'd rather just play a game, or watch a famous match analysis on youtube, or play solitaire. (Unless of course you find that boring chess book to be thoroughly interesting, then go ahead!)

Bartleby73

bronsteinitz, I got the sneaky idea that you are right. He claims that he has bought books, but never read them.

VLaurenT

I've known a French IM who learned only through playing (a lot!), analyzing with stronger players and using a chess engine (back when they were 2500-2600 strength).

beardogjones

OMG! You mean in addition to remembering how the pieces move

we have to learn to read!

Kingpatzer

It is exceptionally unlikely however remotely possible. If you found an IM to instruct you, analyze with you, and play you for hours and hours a day, you could certainly become quite good without ever reading a book. 

But for those of us who don't have the wealth to hire our own world-class daily coach, it won't happen.  

Bartleby73
pfren wrote:

No, it isn't.

you mean it is not possible to become a very strong player without reading books?

Scottrf

Well, you're wrong then. There's nothing in a book that someone can't tell you verbally.

Scottrf

Funny, but you're still wrong.

Kingpatzer

Pfren, are you saying that if someone had a GM or IM trainer work with them every day for several hours, they'd still be unable to become a strong player (to me that means around NM strength) even after many years or even decades of work unless and until they opened up a book and started reading? 

bronsteinitz

Something tells me that Scott learned all his moves orally :-)

Rasparovov

Scott is right, words can be both written and told. Aslong as you have a teacher, why would you ever need a book?

bronsteinitz

I believe Scotts statement is a true one in a theoretical sense, whereas Pfren is correct in a pragmatic and realistic sense and under the current state of technology. In our current socio technological environment, a lot is still dissipated optimally in the format of books, both traditional and e-books. In theory a teacher could read those books to his student, but this misses the point a bit and would be economically to expensive.

A long thread to say that we love you both and that we enjoy the conversation utterly :-)

Kingpatzer

Pfren, that doesn't really answer the question. 

I'll grant that a person who reads books will likely be a better player than one who does not. 

My question is not if a trainer is sufficient for maximum improvement. My question is if a trainer alone can be sufficient to get a player to the NM level. 

I find it hard to believe that is not possible. I will grant even that it might take a very good trainer. But I find it hard to believe that if we could get Yusupov and Dvoretsky to work with a promising scholastic player every day for 3 or 4 hours for many years that they would be unable to get that person to 2200 or so without having the student read a book. 

 Ultimately, though, I do believe it is entirely a theoretical question. In reality a good trainer would want a student to read particular books. And a good student with real talent would want to read particular books. And of course, very few people would be in a position to hire that quality of a trainer for daily work in the first place. 

bronsteinitz

It is possible but does it make economic sense and would it be done in such a way?

Hatmov

what type of books we need to read to become and what is correct way to study those books