55. Rh6+ wins:
Rh6+ Kxh6 Kxf6
and you most likely end up with a rook vs knight endgame. I'm not very expirienced with those, but I'll go out on a limb and say it's a win.
He probably accepted the draw to save himself the embarrasment.
Was a draw correct?
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Klunk wrote:
Another game i played against a higher rated opponent. I offered the draw simply because my endgame is rather weak and i am happy to draw with an opponent rated that highly. I felt that the passed pawns would become very difficult to remove and i might end up sacrificing a rook to stop their promotion.
It looks fairly even, but I would suggest that in future you play that sort of game out, regardless of whether you think its a draw or not. Find out whether it is! You don't get any better by agreeing draws.
If there was prize money or something dependent on the result then maybe you could think about offering a draw, but at the beginner level (and I include myself in that) where there's nothing at stake, I think you should play until its a 'dead' draw, not just an even-ish looking position.
Just my thoughts anyway. Nice game :-)
I think black has at least very good chances to win this. It's hard to believe that he accepted the draw offer.
Either f4 or Ne6+ first look like the start of an unstoppable black pawn march.
Kingfisher wrote:
55. Rh6+ wins:
Rh6+ Kxh6 Kxf6
and you most likely end up with a rook vs knight endgame. I'm not very expirienced with those, but I'll go out on a limb and say it's a win.
He probably accepted the draw to save himself the embarrasment.
Actually this looks like white's last chance for a draw (or in the following move (56)). After that white's position gets very close to lost (maybe already lost after this).
55.Rh6+ Kxh6 56.Kxf6 Nxa4 looks like a dead draw to me. How's white going to make progress? In the vast majority of positions it's a draw even if white can win all the black pawns, which is not so easy in this case anyway:
57.Kxf5 Nb6 58.Ra3 Nc8 and no further progress can be made.
Even if the pawn could be won, it's an easy draw. Still, this Rh6+ try was white's last option to save the game. Black should have won afterwards.
I've been looking for the place where the balance shifted, because before the Rh6+ opportunity, I think the position looked very unclear to me. Perhaps equal. I could find no way for either side to make progress.
I believe I've found it:
52.c4?White may have been able to win. Tell me what you think of that: If white can get those queenside pawns, he'll have something to match black's connected passers. Coupled with his lead in material, this should lead to a probably win.
Sounds difficult to arrange, but add this to the fact that if white can exchange a pair of rooks, his position improves dramatically (the advantage of the rook vs. knight is more pronounced when there is nothing to oppose that rook), and you get: 52. Reh3!
This is also impossible to ignore (if white just plays Rh7 now, Rh6 mate cannot be stopped (g4 Kf4)). or 52...Rf7 53.Rh6+ Kg7 54.Rg7+ Kg8 and now choose between Rxf7 and coming in with the other rook and only then exchanging. Both look like wins for white.
52.c4 misses a nice opportunity.
46.Bxf7+ was indeed the best move which would have led to a position which should be winning with correct play for white. Just realize that your comment seems detached from realitity: "why not Bxf7 and look for a checkmate?"
There is no checkmate there. Nor should you hope for one. But it's not the thing that should interest you. The move is great because it:
1) Wins a pawn.
2) Denies black his connected passers in the game and
3) Exposes the black king, which can't be a bad thing, and is actually extremely useful when you still have 2 rooks, even in an endgame.
Number 2) alone should have sufficed to make this move shine above all others.
Mate is not that important here. It'll come with time...It's good to look for it, even in an endgame, but it sounded as if you thought that what would turn Bxf7+ into a good move. It isn't.
There is a good possibility that 40.Kf6!? is a really good move.Much stronger than Kd5 which was played. Black's king is in a sort of precarious position her, which means black has to be wary of many continuations:
40...Be4 41.Bxd5 Bxd5 42.Rxd5 and black can hardly move. The knight both guards the g5 pawn AND the penetration point d8. (Very dangerous when you add the open h file and Rh2 to the equation. White will win material if that happens quite easily. The problem is that Rd7 is also threatened, black's queenside pawns will start dropping, and the black king will still feel uncomfortable. This looks like a great position for white.
Since I can't find anything better for black than the continuation I have given after 40.Kf6!? I believe it may be a very powerful move.
(If black tries 40...Bh3 41.Bxd5 and just the temporary blockade of the f7 pawn is enough to give white a win, as it's very hard to maintain the connected passers without paying a heavy price: 41...g4 42.Rfe2 Rxe2
(this time 42...Rg3 43.Rxe6 fxe6 44.Bxe6+ does seem to lead to a mate - 44...Kh7 45.Rd7+ Kh6 46.Bf5 with Rh7# next move no matter what)
43.Rxe2 g3 (It's remarkable how susceptible the black king is to attack here, even with so few pieces left: if the knight moves: 43...Nf4 44.Re8+ Kh7 45.Be4+ Ng6 (forced to prevent immediate mate:)) 46.Rf8 with an unavoidable catastrophe).
44.Re3 g2 45.Rg3+ Kf8 46.Bxg2 and this is just a miserably lost position for black. At least it looks that way to me.
Thanks as always for the advice, i was indeed surprised he took the draw as i felt the game was slipping away from me. I wish i'd seen the rook swap (Rh6+ Kxh6 Kxf6) and rook vs knight would have been easier. I think i need to work on my endgame more and look a little further ahead with the moves. But anyway i was happy to draw at the end.
I don't think 55. Rh6+ is a draw at all!
check the move list as well.
Kingfisher wrote:
I don't think 55. Rh6+ is a draw at all!
check the move list as well.I noticed Re1 before, it looks nice, with a single move mate threat, but you are missing the point, rook vs. knight with no pawns for the side with the rook(EVEN if white can win all pawns including the a pawn), is just an easy theoretical draw:) It's a very easy one too.
You didn't even make any mistakes in your analysis, you simply missed the fact that your end position is a draw :)
black just ignores white and plays ...a5 at the end of your line. (he can - because if Kf6 - Nd7+ (going further Ke6 Kh5 - black easily holds)) white has no mate or way to use threats on the black king, and even if he wins the a pawn, black will be left with an easy draw.
(Endgame theory note - there are some exceptional positions with the king in the corner and the pieces placed in very specific places where the side with the knight loses, but none of those positions can be reached here.)
Endgame theory is full of simple nonsense that can be very useful to know...
So I have to agree with your entire line - as well as with your final word on it - "trivial"... Only It's a trivial draw.
So the example board kingfisher put in would end in a draw? Surely it is simple enough to win all the pawns and then mate, all you would have to worry about would be knight forks.
Klunk wrote: So the example board kingfisher put in would end in a draw? Surely it is simple enough to win all the pawns and then mate, all you would have to worry about would be knight forks.
Once again - this is just something that is very useful to know - K+R vs. K+N (with no pawns) is a known draw. It's even a very easy draw. There is no mate for the side with the rook. There are only a very small number of exceptions but none of those special positions can be reached here.
It's not that the side with the rook wins if he is careful about forks... It's that he just can't win. For practical games, it's useful to know the exceptions, but once again, They're not related to this position.
If you just add a couple of pawns to each side, then sure, the side with the rook wins easily in most cases, but... take the pawns away from the side with the rook, and if he is not already in an immediately winning position, it's a draw.
I have won a game with only a rook and a king, surely it is easy enough to win the knight. Or is there some sortof move limit?
No. It's just that the knight cannot be won. With ANY move limit (even if there was no fifty move rule, and you had thousands of moves to win the knight. Can't be done, unless, agfain, you are in one of some very few known and special positions, which is not the case here).
Didn't know that, a very useful piece of information
Another game i played against a higher rated opponent. I offered the draw simply because my endgame is rather weak and i am happy to draw with an opponent rated that highly. I felt that the passed pawns would become very difficult to remove and i might end up sacrificing a rook to stop their promotion.