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aman_makhija

What is the definition of a blunder? How about an innacuracy?

Is 2.f6 a blunder?:



NJCat

A blunder usually involves the objective loss of material or leads to checkmate unnecessarily. An inaccuracy is any move other than the best available move. 2...f6 could be called an innaccuracy but I would instead call it a "book move" within the Damiano defense. 3...fxe5 is the real blunder. Black can win the pawn back via 3...Qe7 and not have to deal with those nasty queen checks.

NJCat

http://www.chess.com/games/view?id=121232

aman_makhija

Thanks, what about a mistake? Is it that a blunder causes immediate loss of 0.5 of a point, whereas a mistake may just slightly weaken the position?

I guess I agree with your definition of an innacuracy.

NJCat

In the absence of material losses, distinguishing between mistakes and blunders is a matter of subjectivity and depends on the gravity of the ensuing continuation. I'm not sure if there is a particular threshold value to quantify the two.

lutak22

Damiano defence is garbage

aman_makhija

Actually, Bxb7 runs into Qb4+.

I think I'll analyse a better line!

aman_makhija
[COMMENT DELETED]
solskytz

Isn't the right move there 8. Bxb7? Or maybe 9. Bxb7?

I do remember vaguely a guy named Sam Sloan making a case against one or the other moves in that variation, maybe proving that 8. h4 is forced, or something...

2...f6 is horrible. It isn't a defense - while after 3...fe black is lost if white knows exactly what to do - turns out there are stuff to actually learn in this variation in case black comes prepared. 

aman_makhija

Yes- good find! I messed up the move order!

solskytz

So yes - turns out that you do pretty much need to play 8. h4. After 8...h5, 9. Bxb7 is a winning position. 

Basically, if you don't play 8. h4 before taking on b7, then after 8. Bxb7 Bxb7 9. Qf5+ Kh6 10. d4+, black has the resource, 10...g5, where the king will find refuge on g7 with unclear play - that Houdini evaluates here at -0.87. The position still looks impressive for white - but he's missing his light square bishop, d4 needs protection and the black pieces are ready to come out. It isn't clear what the queen can accomplish on her own.

On the other hand, 8. h4  threatens a very nasty check by the same pawn next move. As black's king is blocking the g-pawn now, black can't transpose by playing ...g5 and this is the difference - no refuge for the K on g7, ever. 

After the following 8...h5 (8...h6 will also allow 9. Bxb7, as if that bishop is captured, 10. Qf5 is mate), it's now possible to take on b7, as after 9. Bxb7 Bxb7??, 10. Qf5+ Kh6 11. d4 g5 12. Bxg5 will now win at least the queen - as we don't have to spend a tempo on h4 at this point in this variation (we gained that tempo on move 8 with the K still on g6). Houdini even goes as far as offering a mate in seven starting with 12. Qf7. 

A resource for black is always ...Bd6, attacking the queen, after we take on b7 - upon which the queen typically goes to a5 with complications - but these should be very heavily in white's favor, who should be winning quite easily if you study the principles of play in this position for a while. 

aman_makhija

I don't agree- Houdini might say that, but it would be impossible for a human to defend. Naturally, the computer would evaluate it as better for black- Houdini is materialistic. The very fact that though Black is 2 points up, Houdini gives only an advantage less than a pawn, means it is better for white.

solskytz

What do you not agree with? And which position exactly do you think that it would be impossible to defend?

The one after 8. Bxb7 Bxb7 9. Qf5+ Kh6 10. d4+ g5 11. h4 Kg7?

I'm not so sure. I've come alive from positions like that many times... it looks worse than it actually is. White doesn't have pieces ready to attack as much as black has. 

aman_makhija

Yeah, but I think I'd like white, meybe because I'm weaker than you and there's a higher chance of a blunder. Anyway, playing h4 first is still better probably.

solskytz

Right. You can't go wrong if you play 8. h4 and understand what to do next

aman_makhija

I have edited the post. Please tell me if it is right now.