Men VS Women!

"They're all weak, all women. They're stupid compared to men. They shouldn't play chess, you know. They're like beginners. They lose every single game against a man. There isn't a woman player in the world I can't give knight-odds to and still beat."

Bobby Fischer

not saying i agree just putting it out there there are less women who play chess and are interested i dont think they are wired like men are for spatial thinking either

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/2485

Many men get their ego stroked by feeling superior to women. Gives them something to beat on their chests about. It's immaturity full blown. Many women seem to get some kind of masochistic pleasure out of thinking of themselves as being dumber than men. Also a form of immaturity. Baffles me why some people need for others to be weak, and stupid in order to feel good about themselves. Also beats me why some people get pleasure from being second class citizens.

Okay..., is anyone (male) out there married?  Robotjazz - have you tried to teach your girlfriend how to play? (assuming that she doesn't).  I made the perilous journey into trying to teach my wife how to play.  WE ALMOST DIVORCED!  Men and women think differently - a valid statment - for sure. There are some women out there who are indeed very good.  Men tend to be better able to think in a straight line. (before I do this, I need to do this, this, and this) Women tend to think in terms of intuition and emotion.  Neither is completely better - just different - men and women at their best tend to balance each other out.  Are men better than women at chess?  Should there be no distinction at the master levels? You could debate this forever and ever.

  Robotjazz, I don't know you, but from one man to another, if your girlfriend should ever want YOU to teach her, run - do not walk to the nearest exit.  (assuming, of course, you want to keep her around for a while). Good luck in whatever you do.  I just hate to see a grown man cry.

yeah my gf hates chess with a passion

Anyone who thinks men are a superior race as far as playing chess is concerned, probably secretly celebrates Hitler's birthday.

I remember some of what went on in that thread, it was a barrel [of laughs],

And that thread survived for 3 years?

I'd like to bet the farm on the match "Fischer minus knight/ versus Polgar" His clock would be squeeky clean.

I'm currently teaching my 8-yr old granddaughter how to play.  I believe the main issue that most women have when their significant male tries to teach them is that 1. "you're letting me win" or 2. "you're being too hard on me".  Thankfully my granddaughter just thinks of it as something fun to do and that has taught me a thing or two as well.

He means the proportion of women at _______ level (IM, GM, whatever) is equal to the proportion of men.  E.g. if 1% of male chess players become GMs (just an example) then 1% of females do too.

Of course I don't know the real numbers on this, it would be interesting to know.  I don't think it was worth your ranting and raving about (when you didn't even take the time to understand what he wrote).

It means what it says -- if you actually look at the number of women players, their rating distribution, the number of male players and their rating distribution, then ask the question "do these distributions support the hypothesis that women are weaker chess players than men?" the answer you get is "no."

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/276/1659/1161.full

To quote from the paper: "This study demonstrates that the great discrepancy in the top performance of male and female chess players can be largely attributed to a simple statistical fact—more extreme values are found in larger populations. Once participation rates of men and women are controlled for, there is little left for biological, environmental, cultural or other factors to explain. This simple statistical fact is often overlooked by both laypeople and experts."

The study I linked from the Royal Society did note that there is a small margin of difference that is not explained solely by the differences in the number of players for each gender.

Another study, however, might shed light on that small remaining sample. There does appear to be a difference between personality traits of top female players compared to top male players. There's not nearly enough evidence in this arena to even begin to speculate if it accounts for the different participation rates, but it is still interesting:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1041608010000403

"Whereas a lot of studies examine cognitive processes in chess players, personality profiles of elite chess players are still not described well. The aim of this study was to examine personality of strong chess experts and its influence on chess skill. We tested elite male and female chess players with Freiburg Personality Inventory Revised (FPI-R), which also provides population norms for males and females. Elite male players' personality profile did not significantly differ from the population norms. Female players were more satisfied with life, had less physical complaints and higher achievement motivation in comparison with female population norms. Personality was also related with chess skill but showed different patterns in males and females. Stronger male players were more introverted, while we found the opposite pattern in female players. These results indicate that personality plays an important role in the highest level of complex intellectual activities"

This dovetails nicely with most players' experience in tournaments.  Women at tourneys may need to be "more extroverted" because (often times) they attract lots of unwanted attention from men.

Personally, I'm glad to see that (at least some) extroverted women can play a quintessential "war game" just as well as the men.

Another useful analogue, it took a long time for women to be "accepted" in gyms, another male haunt.  About 20-30 years ago the hostility towards women lifting weights in gyms was palpable.

I once took my (attractive) former girlfriend to a local chess tourney.  She commented later, how the higher ranked players seemingly went out of their way to hit on her. Whatever.  We both had a good laugh about it.

Chess players are an eccentric lot.  Not that there is anything wrong with that.  We mean well, but we don't always get the delivery right.  

Indeed,  @Trysts is a fairly strong female player.

With a rapier-like wit in the forums as well.  I always like reading her posts.

Joeydvivre, I don't think so called soft sciences are a good fit for you.  I hope this info isn't (decades) late.

Sorry, Myers-Briggs isn't at all "stupid."

The Department of Defense spends many millions on it, not unlike DARPA, and (previously) the nascent Internet.  Yes all those too.

And most would argue there were lots of good spillover effects, at least for the U.S.

No, you are trolling for an argument.  Perhaps give it a rest.

Next you will be telling us your advise POTUS?

And you have held that grudge for how long?  That was Bush Senior.  Yikes.

Hey, check out your posts in the "Christian Soldier Video" thread (Analyze a wild game). I was in complete and total agreement with you there.  We're "soul mates" in that thread.  More power to you.

Yes, you look to be a serious student of chess.  My hat is off to you.  

How liberal of you.

Is @Joeydvivre and @Ciljettu a match made in internet heaven?

We shall see.    

This almost made opening this thread worthwhile.