Newbie - Always CRUSHED By Computer in Openings

I'm a new chess player and want to learn! 

I've been playing the computer on this site (both medium and hard levels) and seem to always get CRUSHED by the computer (on hard) in the opening 10-15 moves or so. 

I always end up losing major pieces or getting put into very dangerous and disadvantageous positions quickly. 

What's frustrating is that I've even watched online chess help videos on openings.  But it seems in those videos the people play "by the book" in terms of their opening moves.  When I play the computer, it doesn't do what the online video guy or "book" says they will do.  Instead, the computer seems to aggressively come out and just attack attack attack.  Within 10 moves or so, I'm usually losing. 

The most frustrating thing too is that I always lose no matter how the computer opens.  The computer may do what the "book" or online video mentor says is a "bad" or "stupid" opening, such as  playing their A or H file pawns in their first move.  Or they'll play one of their knights to the side of the board first move.  I'll try to capitalize by "controlling the center" as they always say and still the computer finds some way to exploit everything I do. 

Does anyone know what I mean?  It's embarassing!  I get beat when the computer seems to play sub-optimal moves.  Then out of know where I get destroyed.  I try to use those opening principles in online tutorials, but to no avail. 

Help anyone?!!??  Very frustrated! 

learn from online play - use the explorer facility to get used to openings .. the computer knows all u know little - it will beat you ...did me too until i got a bit more savee through slowtime online games

Lol.  I don't know if I'd still be as enthusiastic about chess if I'm still getting consistently beat by the computer on the same difficulty setting years from now.  Maybe I would.  But the sound of playing for years just to get past the opening 10 moves without being already crushed sounds kind of depressing.  LOL. 

Can we just start with something SIMPLE? 

Computer- White; Me - Black

Suppose the computer moves an A or H file pawn up to either A3/A4 or H3/H4.  What next?  

I usually try to "control the center" as they suggest in those online tutorials.  So I immediately push my E or D file pawn up two E5 or D5 (usually this one).

Next, the computer will do some random move and I'll start to protect that E5 or D5 pawn and/or continue to build into the middle. 

----------------------------------------

Is THAT a correct or good idea even?  ....The thing is....I feel I'm doing the right thing by taking advantage of the center.  But then, after 4 to 6 more moves from there often the computer immediately as regained an advantage or is attacking me mercilessly and I find I can't defend against it (like the computer found the exact flaw in my set-up so far). 

BUT, I CAN'T find the computer's flaws (if any)....ahhhhh!!!  Just need to vent, because it's so frustrating.  I simply get crushed every single time I play no matter the openings the computer chooses. 

I think a concrete example would help here.  I'm just exasperated!!!!!!

Most humans either get crushed or are gotten the better of by the computer on hard. My advice is play humans that use more practical moves that you can learn from.

Dude, i aint no master but challenge me on takebacks...3 day moves and i will teach u a bit....only if u want and i don't tolerate time wasters when offerin help...up to you ;-)

wlcgeek wrote:

I'm a new chess player and want to learn!  I've been playing the computer on this site (both medium and hard levels) and seem to always get CRUSHED by the computer (on hard) in the opening 10-15 moves or so.  I always end up losing major pieces or getting put into very dangerous and disadvantageous positions quickly.  What's frustrating is that I've even watched online chess help videos on openings.  But it seems in those videos the people play "by the book" in terms of their opening moves.  When I play the computer, it doesn't do what the online video guy or "book" says they will do.  Instead, the computer seems to aggressively come out and just attack attack attack.  Within 10 moves or so, I'm usually losing.  The most frustrating thing too is that I always lose no matter how the computer opens.  The computer may do what the "book" or online video mentor says is a "bad" or "stupid" opening, such as  playing their A or H file pawns in their first move.  Or they'll play one of their knights to the side of the board first move.  I'll try to capitalize by "controlling the center" as they always say and still the computer finds some way to exploit everything I do.  Does anyone know what I mean?  It's embarassing!  I get beat when the computer seems to play sub-optimal moves.  Then out of know where I get destroyed.  I try to use those opening principles in online tutorials, but to no avail. 

Help anyone?!!??  Very frustrated! 

You're discovering, the hard way, exactly why it is bad to try to memorize openings.  Following opening principles is generally the right way to respond to unorthodox moves, but you also need to look at what your opponent's moves are threatening and respond to those, if needed.  It also helps to remember that every move strengthens something and weakens something else.  Look at what your opponent's move weakened and see if you can exploit that, but also double check your own moves to see what you're weakening in your attempts to advance.

If you're losing in the few 10-15 moves, it probably isn't because of the opening.  You're probably losing because you're either dropping pieces or missing out on tactics.  It'd be hard to figure out your specific problem without seeing a few of your games.  Do you always fall for a fork on c2?  Or does the computer wear you down with an attack on f2?  Do they trade off the defender of an important pawn or piece which is then taken?

[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2012.11.16"]
[White "Computer - Hard"]
[Black "Player"]
 1. g4 d5 2. Bg2 e6 3. d4 Nc6 4. Nc3 Bd6 5. e4 Nxd4 6. Qxd4

Here are the first 6 moves of my game as black.  I'm not going to tell you what I did on move 6, but it was very embarassing.  I got slaughtered after I moved. 

But what about up until this point?  Are my moves OK? 

This is a typical example of what I'm talking about.....I feel I'm attacking the center as they suggest in videos and also protecting my pieces while attacking.  But then I sort of don't know what to do after that.  I don't see any weaknesses in white either as people suggest. 

Maybe I'm just not very patient or am very slow to learn.  I usually start to lose control of the game at around this point.  After trying to gain some center control, I usually blunder after that and white will capitalize and take me down mercilessly. 

Analysis of this SHORT start to a game??

Deathwish, what is "takebacks" from your message above?  I'm new here.  Am not always knowledgeable about terminology.  :)

Oh, one more quick thing. 

I noticed the computer is REALLLLLLLLY good at immediately picking up situations and positions where I am vulnerable to losing a piece (be it immediately or in a lop-sided trade-off like 3 to 2 or 2 to 1 pieces gained/lost).  It seems the computer manuevers its pieces specifically to try to attack these perceived weaknesses. 

So if I've got some unprotected pawn somewhere, the computer seems to re-route stuff to try to go after that.  If I plug that leak, then it will seemingly try to re-route again to attack another weak spot.  I don't know if I'm analyzing too much and am off base, but that's what it seems like. 

It just feels very hard for me to constantly be protecfting everything.  I can't see everything on the board.  I suppose I could try to think for 15+ minutes a move, but I usually move within 5 minutes (at most...often times within 3 minutes or so).  Am I going too fast in the beginning?  Still, even when I've tried (admittedly a "weak" try, due to limited time), I still seem to leave the door open to some major attack that leaves me down a piece or in major danger.  I just have problems preventing this.  And it seems to come very early in the game.  Should I slow down and think for maybe 20 minutes per move? 

(oh and yiquan - my time control is none.  I don't have a timer...but I just move "fast," because I want to play and don't have too much time daily to play long games)

I'm maybe a little confused. 

I hear what you guys are saying about not memorizing openings, but rather using and understanding the concepts behind them (btw, how do I do THAT? ...any articles or resourcs?), but aren't those famous openings played for a reason? 

If the openings didn't matter, then wouldn't the greatest chess players just play anything to open?  I was under the impression they more or less play the same openings most of the time and there was like a list of the most popular ones and very few people deviate from those (because the non-popular ones are weak and easily exploitable??). 

My problem so far is not knowing how to detect weakness in an opponent AND being susceptible to having mine detected and exploited within first 10-15 moves consistently.

Is there ANY super safe opening I can use?  One that is at least relatively safe you can suggest? 

And as for principles/concepts, the videos I watched said:

a.) control the center

b.) castle quickly

c.) develop pieces rapidly and support them

I feel I try to do that, but  still  find myself susceptible to big attacks.  Here was my latest game.  KILLLLLLLED quickly:

[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2012.11.16"]
[White "Computer - Hard"]
[Black "Player"]
[Result "1-0"]
 1. f3 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. Nc3 exf3 4. Nxf3 a6 5. Bc4 Nf6 6. O-O e6 7. d4 Nbd7 8. Qe2 Bd6 9. Ng5 b5 10. Nxf7 Kxf7 11. Qxe6+ Kf8 12. Qf7#

I find playing against any chess computer boring.  There is no human element.  A computer has its opening book and all the variations defined as to the odds involved in which move is winning.  How do you expect to compete against this unless you know the openings and the strategy behind them and then can synthesize precisely how to operate outside these opening theories yet close enough so the computer's opening book doesnt know what to do?  

I wouldnt waste my time on computer nonsense.  So the computer can beat you.  So what?  Its like playing against an idiot savant.  The dumbest human in the world yet when told exactly what to do wins every time.  Boring.

My advice: Start with more common openings. Some italian or 4 knights often lead to computer's unsound knights sacs :)

Again, this comes with practice and with tactical training.  Every tactic is based off of the idea of making multiple threats with a single move.  While you're busy taking care of one threat, the other one is left alone and can become stronger with more moves.

That's where control of the center really comes in.  The best way to be able to make these multiple threats is to be able to move freely through the center.  Make a move that threatens something but also gives you access to space deeper inside your opponents territory, then when your opponent deals with the immediate threat, you can jump in deep and really wreak havoc.

Note that in the game above, after 4. ... Nf6 you're on much firmer ground. White can continue with 5. d4, helping himself to the centre, but you're defending the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit at this point and Black does okay with correct play. 4. ... a6? was a waste of time and 9. ... b5??? lost out of hand.

In the line you played, 7. ... Be7 looks better to me as it still leaves your light bishop defending the pawn on e6, you've an extra piece screening your King from check, and you're ready to castle. Instead you developed it to d6 next move, where it's not all that helpful and, even if White had nothing better to do, he could play 8. Bg5 and pin your Knight since you now have to waste yet another move to unpin it.

Notice how after 8. ... Bd6; you still have to make four more moves before your Rooks are cooperating (castle, move the Queen, move something to let the light bishop move, move the Bishop) whereas White needs to make only one. That puts you roughly three tempi off the pace, even discounting your vulnerable King - all the more reason why it was imperative to castle on move 9.

You spoke earlier in this thread of developing and controlling the centre, but you did neither in this game - possibly lulled by the computer's eccentric opening choice - and that's why you got murdered. But it's a learning experience... :)

it's well known that taking the pawn is bad. After c4 ur in a little trouble.

Ohhh,I think I know what you mean by takebacks now.  You mean if you make a move you regret, then you can take it back?  lol.  Sorry, I was an airhead earlier if that was the case. 

I appreciate the offer and will keep it in mind.  Won't be able to play you online just yet, due to school work that's mounting, but I'll keep your offer in m ind and will message you if I think I can play an extended game.  So far, my play is just for fun against the computer to learn the game. 

Oh, wow!  How did you create a replay of my game and put comments into it?   That was AMAZING!  This was exactly what I had hoped for.  Some feedback on a concrete example.  Thanks! 

To answer your question about move #4 Pawn to A6.  Yes, looking back, this is where maybe I lost a chance to control the center.  I was worried about the bishop checking me and also figured that the pawn there would also prevent his knight from coming in on the side too.  His knight was supporting the bishop to move in and check me.  I think I had flashbacks to this kind of t hing happening A LOT in previous games where the computer would have a knight out and then move the bishop out in front where the knight is supporting it.  In this case, the place where the knight would support would also be a CHECK on my king.  So that seemed double-trouble and a big enough threat that I did A6 on my 4th move. 

I think I see your point, though, that it wasn't that big of a deal at the particular point and developing my pieces and controlling center was MORE important then. 

I'm going to look back and think about other folks' and your comments too!  Thanks! 

I literally had to look up gambit, b/c I didn't know what ppl were talking about.  ...All chess terms are still kind of new to me.  But this reallllly helps!  Love this site!  Thanks. 

Will probably change my approach to just playing quick moves now and try to really take time to analyze more and play less "fast games" (where I'm just playing for fun between school breaks)....I think to really get better I may need to even just take a situation and look at it for 15 minutes rather than playing an entire game in 15 minutes, lol. 

I realize I do need to slow down and just think more.  I tend to react more to immediate threats and get panicky w/o thinking things through more carefully.  Thanks guys!

I wasn't sure if I could beat the hard computer (don't usually play against it). Well, turns out I can - but it took me about an hour. I would get trounced in a 10 minute game.

Play against human players. Call me a purist, but chess is a human game.