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The OP will like this one:
Thought of the same theory as you. HOWEVER
It is based on whoever kills the king first, which is how it applies to this. IE in checkmate, the losing colour can still move another piece, but the winning colour simply, "Kills," the king.
What is this "kills" the k. It's a game that ends at checkmate... not some silly arguement who or what king is killed first.Grow up, and concertrate on your homework.
In case of confusion, the one that can actually TAKE the opponents king first, wins. In OTB this sometimes happens. Your opponent leaves his king in check and moves. Then you just take his king and the game is yours. In these messy situations, it is the same. The one that has the king in his hand first, wins.
So far, I like this answer best.
To all those who say "this is a silly argument because this is or that is the rule, period" . . . you're missing the point that rules can and do change, as the history of chess shows.
Rules change because people see situations like this (what if the piece checkmating another king exposes the moving player's king to check), and they debate whether the current rules should be changed either to make the game more interesting, or fair, or for any other reason they may bring into the debate.
The en passant rule came about from such debates. And castleing? Surely not everyone agreed that was a good idea when it was first introduced . . . probably as a "house rule."
Clearly, the idea that there is a reasonable argument, from fairness or even analogy, that such "mexican standoffs" should be treated as either a draw or may be "illegal" in that a move leading to this situation is a reasonable issue to debate.
I like Bronsteinitz's answer because it project the end of the game to TAKING the king rather than to the point of checkmate...which actually anticipates the taking of the king.
But I think all the people who declare "This is a stupid thread" are being anally subservient to "rules" that they apparently believe were appended by God as a footnote to the Ten Commandments.
These are just game rules. They are made up by people. And because people have different opinions, there are not only many variations of this game but many "house rules" which have developed.
That some "official" body's set of rules are accepted as a standard is great. But if the only thing you can add to this thread is that it is stupid to discuss whether rules can or should be changed, loosen up a bit!
You are not the first one who thinks that an absolutely pinned piece shouldn't be able to give check. So it has already been debated (probably over centuries). Almost nobody could be convinced that such a rule change would help the chess world, so it's not going to happen.
GameRat, I would counter your post by saying the very point most people are trying to make is that the rules don't need to be realistic, and that what's more important is how it challenges the player and creates beauty (even when they say "this is how the rules are," it's quite plausible the above sentiment is implied). Stalemate, like anything in chess, is one extra thing you have to consider, and as such forms the basis for very cool sacrificing ideas. Although rules are subject to change, the point is that arguments against the realism of certain rules are probably not that effective because it is in many ways hypocritical as board games inevitably have tons of inconsistencies when it comes to emulating real life.
If you can argue how abolishing stalemate will enrich game play, that would be more convincing. Perhaps in some ways it will, but in some ways it could take away from the beauty, and moreover the transition phase that people would have to go through (for example, rewriting endgame theory) should not be underestimated. Ultimately, I think if you get used to it the positives outweigh the negatives, and it suffices to make a distinction between putting a trapped king in check and not being in check but still not being able to move.
I do agree though that the fact that the rule is a standard needn't in itself refute the OP, although it is a definite point to consider due to the inconvenience of having to re-learn the game. Of course, those against stalemate are entitled to that opinion, although I wonder if most of these people are only such because they botch games regarding it and are frustrated.
It's true chess had advanced by rules being challenged, but I think there comes a point where adding more and more rules results in a tedious overflow -- I want chess to be complicated without having a million rules. Since a lot of the matter regarding stalemate involves self-responsibility, forcing you to weigh your options carefully, I feel like a sudden rule change in this case would just be an unnecessary nuisance. Back when what we wanted from chess wasn't so clear, as chess was a young child, I think then the rule changes made more sense.
Interesting concept gamerat. I have come accross positions similar to that one in my own experience, but they are fairly infrequent.
You are suggesting that a checkmate should not be a checkmate if the following is true. 1) The checkmating piece is within range to be captured by the king. 2) The only piece guarding the checkmating piece has an absolute pin on it so that it is not guarding anything.
Well... The way I see it is "You are your king" When you play chess. If nobody is alive to give commands then that side loses. However I have found a loop hole. If premoves are activated before hand in an online game then you should be able to get a draw if and only if you premove capturing the opponents king before your king has been checkmated. Those orders could be followed out after the kings death.
It would be called a "MAD" instead of a stalemate. Standing for mutually assured destruction.
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