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OG and brfc on, Chess, Game or Sport? Part 2

brfc
Aug 8, 2009, 10:34 AM 2
1st August 2009, 05:31pm
#19
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

I can't distinguish between the 2, and sorry this post took so long.

I had a chat with my mum and the idea about the brain sadly does fail. Anything to do with the brain (or the fingers) is all to do with the brain power of the brain. However, things to do with muscles are all physical. And my mum works with loads of nurses, so sadly she knows these things.

On the plus side, it means that computer games and the labyrinth are not sports. On the down side, I now can't find a way to show chess is a sport now.Cry however I still feel there is something in this that isn't right.

Chess still feels like a sport, so why then is it? And what is a labyrinth, a question I still can't answer!!??

Thoughts?

2nd August 2009, 03:26pm
#20
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

That is a very good argument, and one that sadly makes chess certainly a game.  I see little left with which to prove that it is a sport.  I agree: it feels like a game.

But wait: intelligence comes into other sports.  I see now that labyrinth and computer games are games.  But intelligence is there with every sport.  Oh.  Unfortunately it cannot be the predominant (and only) factor.  Sorry, scrap that.

I see where you are coming from, though.  Chess feels like a sport.  But that is probably because we love it!  ;)

Labyrinth must now become a game: what else can it be.  And it fits with gut feeling, too.  In my opinion, anyway.

I think we are going to have to accept that chess is a mind sport.  But unfortunately that puts it on a par with scrabble, something I don't like at all!

But I think that is all it's ever going to be.  Unless you can come up with any saving issues?!?!?!

OGSmile

2nd August 2009, 04:10pm
#21
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

I think sadly we've come to the decision that chess is a game and not a sport. However there is 1 vital thing which still can prove chess is a sport, all hail wikipedia!!!!!!!

These 2 links prove chess is a recognised sport! The first link says 9 times about it being a sport, with a whole section on 'Birth of a sport'.

the second one is a list of all the recognised sports that aren't in the olympics!

So I don't think this fight is over  just yet, never hold the white flag up till the flag on your clock falls down, ROFL!

Can we call this a sport or a game, the discussion continues...after OG replies!

2nd August 2009, 04:13pm
#22
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

OK.  I'm sorry, but I think this doesn't really mean anything.  We need reasoning, and the fact that some random guy the other side of the world doesn't really mean much.  Wikipedia might say that, but I don't see why and we need to know why.  I'm sorry: I'd love to be able to say that it was, but I've honestly come to the conclusion that yes, chess now must be seen as a game.   This is a shame but I can't see any way out of it.

:(

OGCry

2nd August 2009, 04:17pm
#23
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

I can sadly see your point here. But I've just found this link that proves it's a sport!!!

This is the official olympics website. Scroll down, and you'll see summer sports, winter sports and recognised sports. Click that to see a list of the sports, and chess is in it!!!

This may be our last hope, I hope it convinces you!

2nd August 2009, 04:20pm
#24
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

Great!  I'll look at it in a second. 

This last chance holds hope...

Believe me, I really hope that we can prove it.  But the downside is that if you convince me, then you'll be able to convince nobody!

OGUndecided

2nd August 2009, 04:21pm
#25
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

Ah...life saving and orienteering are also recognised...

OGSmile

2nd August 2009, 04:21pm
#26
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

Hey, at least we can prove ourselves. And to be honest, it's on the olympic site, and most people associate sports witht he olympics, so when it's linked there, it may be able to convince the ploughboy!

2nd August 2009, 04:24pm
#27
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

LOL!  But the fact that it is has been put up on a website doesn't really mean so much...we need to know WHY!!!

OGSmile

2nd August 2009, 04:30pm
#28
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

From the FIDE website, sometimes websites are all it takes as evidence my friend!!!

Following its recognition as an International Organization in 1989, FIDE was recognized by the IOC in June 1999 as an International Sports Federation.

Prior to the founding of FIDE, chess had existed as a sport played at competitive level for centuries. In its over 2000 years history from its origins in India and outlying countries in Asia, the game had undergone a series of changes and metamorphosed into its present day from by the 15th century. Inthose days, there was no common code governing the Laws of Chess or uniform regulations for international competitions, the only binding forces were that it was a gentleman`s sport in which the players were expected to act in a certain form of decorum and the enduring beauty of the game to its practitioners.

From this page:

2nd August 2009, 04:32pm
#29
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

OK...maybe...but it's not really very satisfactory!

Sorry, but what has that information got to do with anything???

OGSmile

2nd August 2009, 04:34pm
#30
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

The chess has existed as a sport!!!!! And it comes under recognised sports on the olympic website. I think all the websites I've been on, be it wikipedia, olympics or FIDE, it all points at 1 thing, that chess is a sport! I think...

2nd August 2009, 04:39pm
#31
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

But why should it exist as a sport?  Websites may say that it is, but we haven't come up with one saying why yet, have we....?

Maybe it is.  But I'd like to know why!!!

OGSmile

2nd August 2009, 04:50pm
#32
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

Wouldn't we all!!! I'm still looking through many websites and through google, and they all seem to agree chess is a sport. the question is why and the answer is yet to be found! Lemme keep checking and I'll find it sooner or later!

2nd August 2009, 05:00pm
#33
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

This is a website which explains some things about chess and sport:

it gives the definition of sports, and says that it includes chess in this. So does this prove that chess is physically demanding? And it also says about other countries saying it is and isn't a sport.

This gets more confusing, there isn't really a single explanation as to why chess is a sport, yet so many places say it is!

2nd August 2009, 06:00pm
#34
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

So it is physically demanding???  I suppose maybe it is, in a way.  I'm sure your heart would beat faster, your breath rate is quicker, and you sweat more whilst playing chess  (especially when you BLUNDER!), compared to sitting down and watching TV or reading.  But 'demanding' might be a bit much...

The fact that different countries do different things brings back the 'personal opinion' idea again.  And also, I guess, it depends upon whether you play chess, and to what standard.  If you do not play, or know the rules and little else, then you wouldn't think that at all.  But if you are a strong-ish, active player, and frequently enjoy the game competitively, then you would probably acknowledge that it does affect you physically.  I don't know if you get flashbacks after OTB blunders, but I do.  Often accompanying the flashback is a physical pain.  I've heard this is relatively common; I'm not the only weirdo in this world!

So, again, physical effects.

What do you think?

OGSmile

2nd August 2009, 06:44pm
#35
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

You're not, don't worry! I think now this proves that chess is a sport, after all we've gone through. The 1 thing we couldn't think of it why chess is physically demanding and thus, being a sport. This proves it!

However, as you say, the common man wouldn't find chess physically demanding, but would find he'd used up more energy than watching the telly.

I think the definition of sport isn't physically demanding, but just physical, and if it's the latter point, then chess is a sport. If it's the first, we're back to square 1 again!

Thoughts?

2nd August 2009, 08:14pm
#36
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

Well, in some ways it could be classed as physically demanding, really.  OK, you're not gasping for breath at the end of a chess game, but you are tired and maybe aching!  (NOOO!)  I think that really it could be either.  But it's definitely physical.  And it's probably demanding.

Different sources give different definitions: hence the reason different countries have different views, perhaps?  Either way I think it is a sport.  There is definitely a physical side to it, I think.

Agreed?Smile

OG

3rd August 2009, 09:57am
#37
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

Yeah, and especially after seeing the Chess Unlimited posts last night, all seeming to agree it excercises your brain and is physically demanding. And because of this, I think the only conclusion we can come up with is that chess is a sport! Lets not post till tomorrow though, as we can verify what we said then.

I think we've reached the conclusion, chess is a sport!!??

Agreed?

Still, one thing that may be troubling you is that bridge is on the same level as chess, a recognised sport. You may be thinking this puts down chess considerably. However, in bridge, the rules are very confusing, and to be honest I don't know them, but I know from experience that there is a hell of a lot of tactics and strategies in the sport of bridge.

Bluechessmaster does play cridge a bit, along with millions of others. And ok, there may be a bit of luck in it, but as much luck as a game of football or rugby, so we can't call it not a sport because of the luck. and the same with chess, it's physically demanding in the sense of excercising your brain.

So I hope this will clear up you thought about bridge (if you had any!) because I am going to get into bridge in a couple of months I hope :-)

Thoughts?

3rd August 2009, 01:30pm
#38
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

I think Bridge is the least of our worries!  It's things like Scrabble that I'm worried about putting chess on a par with!!!

But making Scrabble on a level with chess also makes it on a level with football, cricket and rugby, too, if that website is to be believed.  So I think we need to come back to our 'mind sports' ideas.

I think chess is a proper sport, because it is physically demanding, for the reasons stated above.  And the other sports, maybe Bridge included, I don't know, as I don't know the rules, can be classed as 'mind sports'.

How does that sound?

OGSmile

3rd August 2009, 01:38pm
#39
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

Scrabble was never on the same wave length as chess, because chess is a recognised sport, scrabble is a mind sport. What exactly this means is still a mystery, however we cannot say scrabble is the same as chess.

Mind sport is the final thing we need to find out what means, then this discussion is over i feel.This is the 1 thing we haven't figured out, which of coure we will sooner or later!

Thoughts?

3rd August 2009, 02:47pm
#40
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

I think mind sports are just lower forms of sports: sports that use skills of the mind and not effort and are not physical.  However, we have shown that chess is physical.  So we have neraly finsished.  But I think there is one more thing that needs to be clarified.  What is Bridge?

I don't know anything about it, but I think you know more.  It depends whether it is like chess in the way that it is physical.   But I do know that bridge is something played in an informal environment, as a bit of fun: it is normally a social thing, and therefore a mind sport, not a sport.

Is that true?

OGSmile

3rd August 2009, 04:47pm
#41
by brfc
Bristol England
Member Since: Mar 2009
Member Points: 2465

BRidge is:

Contract bridge, usually known simply as bridge, is a trick-taking card game of skill and chance (the relative proportions depending on the variant played). It is played by four players who form two partnerships; the partners sit opposite each other at a table. The game consists of the auction (often called bidding) and play, after which the hand is scored.

The bidding ends with a contract, which is a declaration by one partnership that their side will take at least a stated number of tricks, with a specified suit as trump or without trumps. The rules of play are similar to other trick-taking games, with addition of the feature that one player's hand is displayed face up on the table as the "dummy".

Bridge can be played in tournaments, where two or more tables play the same deals of cards and the results are compared; this form is called duplicate bridge. Competitions in duplicate bridge range from small clubs with only a few tables, to the World Championships and Olympiads where often hundreds of tables play the same hands.

It's not a physical game, so should it be a sport? 

3rd August 2009, 05:01pm
#42
by OpeningGambit
England
Member Since: Jan 2009
Member Points: 2772

Yep: it should be a mind sport.

I think this concludes the topic.

So it's PUBLISHING TIME!!!

Our final conclusions: Chess is a sport, technically, however in many people's views, it isn't a sport, which is fair enough, considering it's not physical. We figured out that a sport has to be physical and a game is virtually the same although it doesn't have to be physical. Both have to have a set of rules.

A mind sport is different to a normal sport, becuase mind sports are considered the 'lowest' of sports and they have no physical ability needed in it.

That's it!!!

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