Propositions for definition of rules: Eligibility, Guest Players, etc.

Our 4NCL is attempting to emulate OTB chess. However, they have dropped the time control to 45|15 to compensate for online play. In my opinion, looking at how internet chess has evolved over the years, you can't emulate OTB chess.

I've spoken to 4NCL players and many speak of their minds wandering... maybe an email pops up. A phone call... there's a film on... one fancies a coffee or a snack. 45|15 is still a very long time for an online game of chess. Somewhat ironically, times are changing... possibly have changed forever. OTB league chess is likely going to die. We all know it... which is why this initiative has been launched and many of us are here crying about how much we're going to miss it. So, people are just going to have to get used to getting their chess fix online. Unfortunately, that also means getting used to faster play. Much faster play. Like 15|10 faster - which is still actually quite slow for internet chess. Otherwise, there is Daily. A combo of both should be enough for anybody. Fast chess for a fun fix and slow daily for when you want to enjoy studying positions.

I don't doubt though, that some will still try to emulate OTB chess online. It is the first thought we all have and looks fine in theory. In practice, however, it just cannot happen.

I think you are correct but the feeling is we need the connection during this time.  And it’s important and I will help if I can.  I am a player rep on the committee and just happen to run some clubs here including helping with Team Australia.  I don’t know how it will go as some have never played online where as others like myself play so much online that it is easy.   
We will be interacting and that is a good thing.  We fear that there won’t be the OTB after this.  It is a real fear and although I learnt online and play online we need to promote all forms of chess and I only joined OTB play by meeting players here.  And the hope is after we are back playing this can be an adjunct and can promote OTB playing.  So maybe some good will come of this horrible disaster.  
I will do what I can and have enlisted others to help and never thought the skills I had here would ever be useful in this way.  Hopefully it will all work out OK.  And regardless of whether we playin this league by the site we will exist and be ok.    We are Australians and had bushfires and now this.  We are tough and will survive it.  
And I disagree that we cannot make it happening.  It is being organised and it will happen.  It certainly won’t replace OTB play and don’t think that will ever happen.  
We do need a connection especially at this time.

I meant that it will not happen for everybody. I know there will be small pockets of people clinging on, but I imagine the groups will be small and gradually they will either die (quite literally) or move online.

I too came from online first (after school chess). I started around 1400-rated back on FICS, manually searching for 10-min blitz games and playing on an X-Board, to name one. I only went OTB because two of my sons have a passion for the game and I felt they needed the experience.

A part of me will miss it, but another part of me wants to embrace online chess. I've always been the kind of person who wants the future now, so I embrace change. The main thing for me is in knowing where I stand. ATM, I'm throwing all of my efforts into bringing club players online and helping show them the fun there is to be had - wagering, I suppose, that OTB league chess will not survive. 
The signs are there that it will not. All this effort hasn't been put in by chess.com unless they believed the same thing... or, certainly, betting in the same direction.

I surely hope it does.  It’s fun and nice to meet opponents face to face.  

Fully agree with Kookaburra! Let's embrace online chess, of course, but don't forget about the roots!

 DBowcott, by the time, you will see the magic of OTB, that happens when you are face to face in a tournament chess game, or side by side with your team mates in a league match against another team...Not only for your own match, that can become an epic battle,  but also when you're walking through the playroom, seeing your team mates playing, guessing how would be the score of your team... Fevering with the others around the last board where the last game is continuing over hours and hours, until the very end, the moment of victory or defeat, but in every case, an incredible moment of emotion, passion of chess and also of friendship.

Yeah, long live OTB! 

I see this doesn't really move on here...

Do we have a comprehensive mission statement, describing what we are all here for ?

All proposals could be then referred/checked against it. 

Question to the  Board, but anyone could contribute...

Maybe one key question: What makes the difference to the thousands of other online clubs and leagues here?

I have played OTB for years but have never stood around a final board 'for hours and hours'. My team played in 4 different leagues and I was even captain of teams I did not play in myself. My two sons are/were also (as well as playing league chess with the adults) regulars on the junior circuit, where almost every weekend I was at some hotel or other while they played. I also enjoyed Rapid and Long Play congresses.

Not sure about all the emotional stuff. It's just chess.

In answer to your question, the main difference between all the other clubs is that these are real clubs with values and integrity. So, we don't just let anyone in. And having a cheat in our team would be the ultimate disgrace. 

Online teams couldn't give a... 

They just exist and have no real substance.

The league format, rules, schedule, and more information are coming later today.

The difference with this league from many other online leagues is that this will be an official Chess.com clubs league with prizes, staff support, news articles, etc.

Agree with CM@durin

Bit late to the party here, but if the goal is to try and genuinely emulate real OTB chess, I honestly don't think teams should field anyone who lives outside a 50 mile radius (i.e. reasonable commuting distance). It's totally against the spirit of the competition. Yes, the wonders of online chess mean they can now join in with a couple of clicks, but such players couldn't participate in person if you had to field a team in real-life. Fielding a player based hundreds or thousands of km away is surely the worst kind of violation - and I hope that principle would be universally shared.

Further, if it would be reasonable for new players to come along to the bricks-and-mortar club in real-life (i.e. they live within 50 miles), then it seems reasonable that they should be allowed to join the online version too.

Sadly, that's not what the rules say (and as others have noted, you can drive a bus through the gaps in the eligibility rules). It feels like almost anyone can play for any team, which is obviously ridiculous.

I am currently running OTB fixtures HERE and we aren’t eligible unless we represent Adelaide chess club and not SACA which is the South Australian Chess Association and we could but after we were rejected it was decided not to participate.  You need the magic club word and we should have said we were Adelaide chess club but we represent the association not a club.  So we don’t qualify.  Our clubs won’t form individual clubs here although Modbury has one here with 5 active players.  Our clubs are too small to participate.  

There is only 1 city in our state.  We all live in Adelaide.  There are a few regional towns all small and to my knowledge they have no chess clubs.  

Maybe the rules need to be more flexible.  

Kookaburrra - That is very strange indeed - I assume that your physical location is "The Chess Centre of South Australia, 10 Ranelagh St, Adelaide SA 5000, Australia" and I can see that Modbury is only 10 miles away from there.

Yes, there appears to have been great emphasis put on your name which is misplaced, as the important thing is who your players are! In my view, all of you in the local Adelaide area should be able to compete together and call yourself by SACA, Adelaide or any other name.

Yes The OTB tournaments and games we are playing are in fact played at the chess centre in Adelaide.  Most of the state is outback Australia.   

We are playing normal and school games on different days.  Different schools are competing.   They’d all normally play at the chess centre in Adelaide.   It is going ok.  Lots of work.  And I am involved because I know how the site works.  

Just running whatever they ask for. 😎😎😎

Let’s hope we can play back the normal way soon.  

There are already plenty of online leagues on chess.com. We, Halesowen, don't play in any of them. This one was supposed to be different and more akin to actual OTB league chess in that people are proud to represent their local team. Instead, what we have are internet clubs posing as league clubs, and entire counties banding together and calling themselves a club. I see no difference between this and all the other leagues. The offer of free memberships is pointless when chess is free all over the internet, and it also only encourages more cheating. However worthless, once prizes are involved, more people will cheat. It's an incentive. I know that nobody from our team will care about prizes.

I'm annoyed that I have to go back to our team and tell them that this isn't going to be what I sold to them. Sorry to bring Devon up again, but it's one I know about. We would have loved to have played Exeter and Plymouth. That is why we joined (obviously not just for Plymouth and Exeter) and were excited at the opportunity to play similar clubs from all over the world. What a great idea. However, that isn't what we're getting, and for me, that is a huge letdown.

Dustin - as you are already aware, a few days ago I voluntarily changed our entry from DCCA Online Club over to Exeter Chess, even though chess.com had deemed the former perfectly eligible to compete. I messaged you say that I'd done that, and you replied (positively, too). I'm a little confused as to why this is being brought up again.

The competition admins have clearly decided it would be impossible to police who is a "legitimate" club member - a difficult task that is highlighted by your example of a historical Halesowen member who is now based in Canada, and so would be unable to compete for you "over the board", but who you clearly feel should be allowed to play. You will no doubt see this as obvious, but others may disagree - it is not an easy question. In my view, the ideal criterion for the league to use would be a geographical one (say, living within 50 mile radius) to emulate the "catchment area" of the bricks-and-mortar club, thereby allowing new local players to join in (and indeed those without an online home - not all clubs have made the transition yet). The problem, again, is that privacy / data considerations make this very difficult to enforce / police.

I feel we are probably not going to be able to reconcile even these two opinions - and I am also aware that our views are just two among many thousands of competitors overall. On balance, the admins have probably decided that neither of our systems is worth the time and effort that would be required.

I don't know whether you have explored privately arranging "genuine" club matches with other online clubs? If so, what has the response been?

You were not the point of the post, merely an example. Yours will not be the only case. My argument isn't with club memberships... it surely doesn't matter where members come from... but what does matter is that it is a legitimate OTB club... as Plymouth, Exeter, and Halesowen all are. 

Being more akin is not the same thing as replicating. I don't want to replicate. That's impossible online as the ECF will doubtless soon find out when they launch their long-play county league - coming soon. Playing teams from all over the world is not possible ordinarily OTB, nor is it even viable playing Exeter or Plymouth. 
Keith Arkell played many league games for us while living 200 miles away in Paignton. He had an address in Birmingham he used to stay at. If I chose to, I could fly to a league match in Brazil and play for a team there. The only thing preventing me from doing that is the inconvenience and cost of doing so. The internet removes both.

Memberships will have to be broadened. The important thing for me is not the membership, but the club and its history. 

I am currently running OTB fixtures here for the South Australian Chess Association and it appears we aren’t eligible for this.  Our clubs are non existent or too small to participate.  It is a lot of work and a struggle and it is a shame there is nothing like this where we could play other similar groups.   Just getting everyone online hasn’t been easy and emulating the way OTB is played isn’t easy either.  Dealing with all the complaints isn’t much fun either.   We are all under stress and miss the way we used to play.   

We do know and check all members.  Since I applied here we have split into 2 clubs for ordinary members and another for the school children.  
It is sad times for us all and chess and hope humanity and chess survive it all.    I also play that other game.  Checkers or draughts as some call it and same problems there.  We are all in mourning for how life was and I don’t like this new ‘normal’.