My brown stain set from Noj is so well crafted I'm stunned by it every time I take it out of the box. That's one year or so after purchase. That's not the work of somebody who likes to scam people.
A Bevy of BCE Stage 1 Eastern & Western style Blitz sets from Ifekali and Noj.
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maik1988 wrote:
My brown stain set from Noj is so well crafted I'm stunned by it every time I take it out of the box. that's one year or so after purchase. That's not the work of somebody who likes to scam peoe
Seconded.
MGT88 wrote:
KnightsForkCafe wrote:
*...I've never seen or handled a NOJ set in the flesh, but I know more about it than the people who do. Bow down to my proclamation of wisdom NOJ snobs!...*
If you want to be swindled out of your money into the pockets of those who are willing to take your money. Then go right ahead. A slightly better finish isn't worth 2 to 3 times the cost. Sorry but if you aren't seeing it then I can't help you. Good day sir.
I don't think you understand the difference in labor/material cost between Europe and India. Here is some quick math for you:
> Noj has stated they put approximately 28-30 hours of labor into each set
> 500 EUR/28-30 hours = approximately 16.50 EUR an hour, which is $18.50 USD an hour
> Factor in materials, maintenance, overhead, etc., and that hourly rate comes down
> Even $18.50/hour (which excludes all of the costs I listed above) does not seem unreasonable
Regarding your use of the word "swindle"...if only you knew who you were slandering. I had a situation with one of my orders where I straight-up offered Noj extra money no strings attached and they refused to accept it; you have no idea who you're bad-mouthing.
Your attempts to teach KnightsForkCafe basic economics are admirable. But I fear at this point it is just more pearls before the swine.
He already has already doubled down on his ignorance.
At this point I'm grabbing the popcorn to see how many more post he'll make to protect his secret king status and try to get in the last word...
Wes350 wrote:
MGT88 wrote:
KnightsForkCafe wrote:
Wes350 wrote:
KnightsForkCafe wrote: ...
Me personally NOJ is more of a con artist than a real chess set maker. I don't see their craftsmanship worth the cost they are wanting people to pay. Sorry but I am calling a spade a spade.
You should have just lead with that in one of the previous NOJ related threads.
Now that you finally worked up the courage to share your actual opinion, there is no reason for you to click on any more threads that discuss NOJ chess sets.
You need not exert yourself to actually post your opinion.
We all know what you will say.
If you want to be swindled out of your money into the pockets of those who are willing to take your money. Then go right ahead. A slightly better finish isn't worth 2 to 3 times the cost. Sorry but if you aren't seeing it then I can't help you. Good day sir.
I don't think you understand the difference in labor/material cost between Europe and India. Here is some quick math for you:
> Noj has stated they put approximately 28-30 hours of labor into each set
> 500 EUR/28-30 hours = approximately 16.50 EUR an hour, which is $18.50 USD an hour
> Factor in materials, maintenance, overhead, etc., and that hourly rate comes down
> Even $18.50/hour (which excludes all of the costs I listed above) does not seem unreasonable
Regarding your use of the word "swindle"...if only you knew who you were slandering. I had a situation with one of my orders where I straight-up offered Noj extra money no strings attached and they refused to accept it; you have no idea who you're bad-mouthing.
Your attempts to teach KnightsForkCafe basic economics are admirable. But I fear at this point it is just more pearls before the swine.
He already has already doubled down on his ignorance.
At this point I'm grabbing the popcorn to see how many more post he'll make to protect his secret king status and try to get in the last word...
I really didn't want to respond to his posts because it's trolling/flame wars like this which have ruined this forum, however, those last few posts were the last straw; I can't abide him calling Noj con artists/swindlers, which couldn't be more opposite of the truth. I've dealt with many chess equipment companies and the best service I've ever received has been with Noj and Chess House.
Jul 14, 2020
0
#66
Yeah, popcorn is a great idea. This Rube is digging himself deeper and deeper. This is like a dark comedy.
MGT88 wrote:
I really didn't want to respond to his posts because it's trolling/flame wars like this which have ruined this forum, however, those last few posts were the last straw; I can't abide him calling Noj con artists/swindlers, which couldn't be more opposite of the truth. I've dealt with many chess equipment companies and the best service I've ever received has been with Noj and Chess House.
Oh yeah, I totally get "Not wanting to feed the troll" - but he actually showed his true colors!
That's the reason I made sure to quote his posts - so he couldn't edit them later.
Some trolls you can starve out, and some just need to be ran out...
Jul 14, 2020
0
#68
Hey! Nobody attempted to rationalize the expensive/won't ever buy one attitude about Noj more than me,upon first hearing about them.
I had quite a few C.B. sets already and quite a few other mfgrs......but....I never knocked the company because I never had my hands on one of their products(Noj).
Ultimately,I decided to splurge for "just one" Noj set(the TAL set,in dark stain and the new knights).
It was totally clear to me that this was a product that was "clearly superior" to any other set I'd seen to that point....and....since.
Simply superior wood and an aura of craftsmanship that "if you have not handled one, than with all due respect kindly shut up"!
My only complaint with Noj was the pen that they kindly sent me had a dry ink cartridge....Ha....(actually they were nice enough to send 2)......The TAL set was and is beyond great and I own 21 sets,so I have a means of comparison.
P.S. Sound67 has been(without knowing it) responsible for me getting more than one really nice set of pieces,because he posts photos of his acquisitions and the guy does have good taste.
If he,or anyone else, cares not to get an Noj set,it's fine by me.......but....they are the penultimate manufacturer, in my opinion.....and nobody wished to rationalize not getting one of their sets more than I did.
Jul 16, 2020
0
#69
*bump*
It is interesting that the BCE sets have all been made in wood at Noj. Yes, Izmet is not far from Noj. When I bought boards from him, he would get the board to Noj where they shipped the board along with a set I was buying from Noj, to save me money on shipping.
Izmet also says Noj is excellent.
In all fairness, the troll, KnightsForkCafe, complains about all higher priced sets. But he is still wrong, especially when it comes to Noj.
Eyechess wrote:
*bump*
It is interesting that the BCE sets have all been made in wood at Noj. Yes, Izmet is not far from Noj. When I bought boards from him, he would get the board to Noj where they shipped the board along with a set I was buying from Noj, to save me money on shipping.
Izmet also says Noj is excellent.
In all fairness, the troll, KnightsForkCafe, complains about all higher priced sets. But he is still wrong, especially when it comes to Noj.
Noj offers the BCE in Kerrock, which is a porcelain-like material. Regarding the troll; I have no issue with someone expressing an opinion that something is over-priced or etc. (even though they may be wrong), what I do have a problem with is someone attacking the character of an honorable business by calling its owners "con men" and "swindlers", especially when this is the complete opposite of the truth.
rcmacmillan wrote:
@Mgt88, Kerrock (r) is a composite material that looks and feels like stone but is actually acrylic based. The composition is made by mixing acrylic polymer with aluminium hydroxide both of which are completely safe to both humans and the environment as a whole. The solid colors may look like porcelain, but they are easily turnable on a lathe and nowhere near as brittle. It is very similar to Dupont's product, Corian (r), which is made from acrylic polymer and aluminum trihydrate. It's certainly an interesting material from which to make a chess set.
Correct, I have a sample piece from Noj.
Jul 16, 2020
0
#72
KnightsForkCafe wrote:
Wes350 wrote:
KnightsForkCafe wrote: ...
Me personally NOJ is more of a con artist than a real chess set maker. I don't see their craftsmanship worth the cost they are wanting people to pay. Sorry but I am calling a spade a spade.
You should have just lead with that in one of the previous NOJ related threads.
Now that you finally worked up the courage to share your actual opinion, there is no reason for you to click on any more threads that discuss NOJ chess sets.
You need not exert yourself to actually post your opinion.
We all know what you will say.
If you want to be swindled out of your money into the pockets of those who are willing to take your money. Then go right ahead. A slightly better finish isn't worth 2 to 3 times the cost. Sorry but if you aren't seeing it then I can't help you. Good day sir.
With comments like above, KnightsForkCafe shows a lot more and worse than simply saying he doesn’t see the value in a more expensive set.
He takes the position of being an expert on Chess sets. Saying that he can’t help you if you cannot see the lack of value. And in that he is condescending at best.
He gives his opinions as if they matter, when it is obvious that he does not know anything he talks about.
He is quick to insult others that disagree with him. And he is quick to insult places like Noj and be completely wrong about them. This is called being ignorant. And KnightsForkCafe is being ignorant.
He has completely lied about things said and done to make him look better and those he disagrees with look bad. KnightsForkCafe is a liar.
Advice he gives is well over 95% wrong. So in Chess Equipment, KnightsForkCafe is bad and really doesn’t know what he is talking about.
Oh yeah, if you take his advice you will be ready for your house to burn down at any time and you will lose your Chess sets, sheesh.
Personally, I think it is ok for someone to express a positive or negative opinion even if that person does not own the set in question... even if the person does not own any sets at all. They can still like or dislike the set. They can still like or dislike the price. What I don't like is when someone throws out words like waste even if that might be how the person really feels. I think that is disrespectful to the owner of the set who probably loves the set he/she is reviewing or discussing. I know this is the Internet where our identities are shielded. However, we'll all human beings and should at least have some level of respect for each other.
Jul 16, 2020
0
#74
MCH818 wrote:
Personally, I think it is ok for someone to express a positive or negative opinion even if that person does not own the set in question... even if the person does not own any sets at all. They can still like or dislike the set. They can still like or dislike the price. What I don't like is when someone throws out words like waste even if that might be how the person really feels. I think that is disrespectful to the owner of the set who probably loves the set he/she is reviewing or discussing. I know this is the Internet where our identities are shielded. However, we'll all human beings and should at least have some level of respect for each other.
I agree. And all the guys that did write the bad things are all, except for KnightsForkCafe, no longer posting here.
This KnightsForkCafe is a bad writer. If we can get him to stop, things would be fine.
Jul 16, 2020
0
#75
Agreed....but.....Out of simple curiosity,has anyone on this forum owning an NOJ set stated that they did not care for it,on a quality and construction/overall value standpoint?
I've only been around here for three years and I honestly don't remember seeing that mfgr criticized for anything other than being expensive.
@Eyechess I get what you are saying. For me, I am not sure I would go that far though. I think everyone has a right to post an opinion about chess equipment on this site. I think it is good to hear a lot of opinions. I think I can definitely live without some of the extra things that go beyond the like or dislike. The word "con" is one that comes to mind. I think that was way out of line. I recently had an email conversation with Gregor from Noj about one of their sets and I would say "con" is NOT a word that I would ever associate with him. Gregor was very open and honest with me, and he answered all my questions in a very straight-forward manner. I couldn't ask for more from anyone. Anyhow, opinions are fine. Those extras are not.
@magictwanger I've been around even less than you but I don't believe I have ever seen any owner of a Noj set say anything negative. I believe the worst thing I read was from Eyechess who said the collar for one of the walnut queens in his Dubrovnik set chipped after 7 years. The story was actually a positive one because Noj sent him a replacement queen for free. Others have expressed a similar complaint about the walnut used by Noj beingtoo soft. That was the reason some prefer the stained maple sets.
Jul 16, 2020
0
#78
I remember Eyechess 's story and the happy ending too(of the story)-
My NOJ set is the brown stained Tal,with the newer Knights.Since I used to collect acoustic guitars and worked quite a bit with woodworking,when I was a younger guy,I pretty much can figure out if wood is of high quality and there is virtually zero comparisons to the woods used by NOJ.
Penultimate is an accurate description of those guys,imo.
Btw,as I do admit that these are expensive sets and there are quite a few other mfgrs making gorgeous pieces,at a very nice price,I totally understand why some folks are skeptical of NOJ.
Me? I have the hots for the Staunton Castle version of the Old Vienna Coffe House set,in the distressed look!....That one is also up there in price,but I have patience and will wait for the right time to go for one......Like a Black Friday sale,or Cyber Monday....or......better yet,another stimulus check......Ha!
Not holding my breath for the last one.
Jul 17, 2020
0
#79
@ MagicTwanger: I have 2 Noj sets, both dubrovnik IIs, in walnut and brown dye. I think that if I were to do it again, I would only buy the dyed set. I love the walnut set also, but value wise, I think it's a no brainer. Just to point out some benefits of the stained sets over the walnut:
- Walnut is softer than maple and will dent more easily. Battle scars are more visible.
- Walnut has a different density than maple. This wouldn't matter so much in a heavily weighted set but in a set weighted with relatively light uniform 20 gram weights, the difference in weight between dark and light pieces is very noticeable. Stained maple pieces, on the other hand, are indistinguishable, and logically so, from maple pieces.
- The quality of the stains is mesmerizing.
The stained sets retail for 50 euro more than the walnut. I think the pros I listed outweigh the price difference. So while I do love both the sets I have... (!)
Jul 17, 2020
0
#80
I agree with all three of you. I have been coming here over 5 1/2 years. And I have not read one complaint from anyone that owns a Noj set.
It is kind of interesting that the only people complaining or saying they do not like the Noj sets do not own any of them.
Yes, the cost is the most talked about thing. And while we Noj owners will agree that the costs are high, we never complain saying they are too high.
And there are a number of sets, notably from HoS and a few others that cost just as much and even more.
Also the service of a place shows the personality. And Gregor and Noj have consistently has been great. And anyone that has interacted with him has said so..
Me personally NOJ is more of a con artist than a real chess set maker. I don't see their craftsmanship worth the cost they are wanting people to pay. Sorry but I am calling a spade a spade.
You should have just lead with that in one of the previous NOJ related threads.
Now that you finally worked up the courage to share your actual opinion, there is no reason for you to click on any more threads that discuss NOJ chess sets.
You need not exert yourself to actually post your opinion.
We all know what you will say.
If you want to be swindled out of your money into the pockets of those who are willing to take your money. Then go right ahead. A slightly better finish isn't worth 2 to 3 times the cost. Sorry but if you aren't seeing it then I can't help you. Good day sir.
Well, you have shown your true colors and they are ugly.
You attack places like Noj and you know nothing about their sets except pictures on the internet and prices.
You are a proven liar.
You attack, insult and make less of people that want to and then spend more money on proven higher quality stuff.
Yes, this is a Chess Books & Equipment forum. You know, it is for people that want to talk about and look at and even buy Chess sets of all types and prices.
You really should go somewhere else.