Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set

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strngdrvnthng

Thanks, I was just about to e-mail Alan Dewey as he advised me previously concerning one of my Jaques Whittington travelling sets. Thanks again, cheers John C.

htdavidht

Really good post, a lot of interesting information. Thank you for sharing this.

andy277

They did have screw-in weights. Though the picture below is not of a Jaques pawn, it does illustrate how it was done.

 

As has also been noted, the top half of the knights also screwed in, as did the kings' finials.

It's the pawns that the repros always seem to get wrong — they make them too dumpy or they make the balls too big or the stems too thick. The originals are much more elegant. Compare the pawns here with those from the repros.

Retired_Account

I neglected in my original post to include the informative review of the set available from The Chess Piece by board member Gomer_Pyle.  You can read it here:

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-equipment/antiqued-staunton-set-from-thechesspiece

Should I add it to the original post?

mirasma

Thank you guys, for the clarifications. I once spoke with Vikramjit of chessbazaar who told me in medium ranged pieces the base are of iron while in luxury sets the bases are of lead. Over the years, the cheaper sets may puff up at the base and crack. Ever since then, I have taken special care of my sets. I put them in air tight plastic box. Now it's rainy season here and I don't have the galls to bring them out to play. I love my sets and I can't see them getting damaged. I wish my son and daughter get to play with them when they reach adulthood. Those sets, even though they are cheap, will be my heirloom items for them. I hope the new Jaques replicas will have proper lead base.

andy277

It's not just cheap or modern sets that crack. It's quite common for antique sets, including Jaques sets, to show cracks in weighted ebony pieces where the wood has contracted around the lead. I would leave your sets where they can retain some moisture, not keep them in an airtight (and presumably dry) environment.

mirasma

Is it? Can you explain why?

andy277

Is it what?

Retired_Account

Let's discuss ebony for a bit.  A little relevant link:

http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/

I think it's a good bet that the ebony used in antique Chess sets was probably one of the more endangered species.  Any ebony used in  a reproduction today will probably be sourced from some other species.  And while the overall effect may be 99% identical, there will still be some small differences in grain pattern, overall blackness, and the strength/durability of the wood. I've seen various comments around the internet that many of the ebony chess sets being sold out of India today have flecks of brown, or when viewed under scrutiny reveal themselves to be more a very, very dark brown than a true pitch black.

This raises another question, which is the aging process of ebony.  We know all about boxwood and its tendency towards that most desirable toffee color over time, but what about the black pieces? 

I've read in a few places that ebony wood will darken over time, including the current wood out of India.  It should should get darker due to oxidization just like the boxwood, but I'd like to hear some firsthand accounts from people who might have bought some sets 20 years ago or so when the switchover to the current species of ebony being harvested started to occur.

Oh, here's some Gabon ebony to drool over:


Unfortunately, I think to get this level of jet-black blackness these days you would have to go with ebonized pieces rather than the real thing.  But would that really be so bad? 

mirasma

Andy: please explain why I should expose my sets to moisture. I have been advised something else. I have absolutely no clue about these things.

Jack_Burton: absolute ebony is rairity these days no doubt but it was once in abundance in India. If you go to the southern part of India and visit an old household, you will see the furnitures are all made of ebony wood. Also in South India the wood is special because idols, particularly that of Krishna, are made of a special variety of Ebony.

They say, ebony, once matured, is stronger than iron!

And BTW, these varieties of ebony are actually not very huge trees, by they take decades to mature and bring out the blackness. Very recently I learnt that if you cut the ebony tree before it is 30-35 year old, the core of the trunk will be brownish and it can't naturally become absolute black however you try. But of course, it darkens over time, but never becomes charcoal black, I have been told by a very knowledgeable person who dealt in these matters. And of course, I have seen various grades of ebony too in India.

Retired_Account

As strong as iron?  All my research so far says ebony is fairly strong along the grain, but is brittle in the other direction.  It does not hold up as well to drops and shocks compared to Shesham or Boxwood.  And it is known to crack around the base in extreme old age. 

My way of preserving my sets is rather odd.  I don't.  By that I mean I do keep them in box, and I leave them put up in a fairly secure location, but beyond that I take no special measures.  I have a sort of fascination with the weathering of chess pieces and the aging process.  I've even been known to take chess pieces out at night and simply handle them for a bit, hoping to speed along the development of a nice patina.  But I also regularly play games with my most expensive set.  Sometimes I don't even wash my hands before!

mirasma

yeah, that's how they describe it. i guess, just as a metaphor. 

but i disagree with you about its brittleness. i have seen the furniture myself. it is very, very, strong and dark as charcoal, naturally. my grandfather had an easy chair made of ebony wood and it is still intact and ready to be used if someone cares to put cushion on it etc.

may be we are talking about different woods here. i came across this english term 'ebony' only now. i am refering to a particulr kind of Indian wood. the tree is of medium height and never too wide in its girth. the blackness is in the core of it. as the core ages, it produces a shine and is black as charcoal. this wood is highly priced for idol making but sadly, you don't get them anymore in the open market. i guess they have chopped them all, except in protected jungles. 

andy277
mirasma wrote:

Andy: please explain why I should expose my sets to moisture. I have been advised something else. I have absolutely no clue about these things.

I didn't say you should expose your sets to moisture — I said you should keep them where they can retain some moisture (ie, not in environments that will dry them out), since in weighted sets the drying out of the wood causes shrinkage and cracking around the weights.

Crimguy

Pretty true. I have a Staunton set I got at the Village Chess Shop in NYC. Did fine in New York but when I moved to Arizona the pieces got brittle, and a couple cracks have formed.

andy277 wrote:

mirasma wrote:

Andy: please explain why I should expose my sets to moisture. I have been advised something else. I have absolutely no clue about these things.

I didn't say you should expose your sets to moisture — I said you  should keep them where they can retain some moisture (ie, not in environments that will  dry them out), since in weighted sets the drying out of the wood causes shrinkage and cracking around the weights.

mirasma

Ah, that makes sense. But if I bring out the sets in this Mumbai humidity, the iron bases will expand. So packed it remain for the monsoon. Thanks for the clarification, Andy!

mirasma

over time. read my previous comment. #26 here.

strngdrvnthng

Wood will expand due to excess moisture in the air and contract due to excess dryness. Metal will expand due to heating and contract due to cooling...it's basic physics. Excessive moisture will not cause metal to expand.

mirasma

not even when the metal base catches rust? that's called puffing up and is a problem with sets with iron base. if it was lead, i would not have cared. it has already happened with one of my sets, but that was dirt cheap folding board stuff. can't risk that with my other sets, which are beautifully carved, but unfortunately have iron base. is the price difference so much that the bases cannot be equipped with lead for all sets? quite frustrating.

strngdrvnthng

Okay, you know best.

andy277

I don't know about the situation in India, but I think lead has been replaced with iron in chess sets in the west probably because of OSH regulations, not price.