Reproduction and Real Jaques of London Chess Set

@forked_again: I expected to see the most variations in the knights because they require more hands on work than the other pieces. In fact, for my sets at least, the knights surprised me with how much they conform to the other knights in the same sets. Most of the size variations were within one or two millimeters, which seems perfectly acceptable, especially given that my margin of error is about half a millimeter. I don't mind pieces being turned on a lathe using templates and then finished up by hand. After all, that was one of the considerations behind the Staunton design, to make them quickly to a uniform standard.

Most of the size variations were between the black and white pieces and not between like pieces of the same color. None of the size variations were noticeable with even a close look except for one set's white queens, which were at least 3 mm different.

Most of the variations were with the weighting. Sometimes the black pieces were heavier, sometimes the white, sometimes close enough to call equal. Most were reasonably close but a few were wildly different, like almost a full ounce between like pieces ( I forget whether king or queen).

So, yes, overall the variations were small and usually unnoticeable. It's just that the variations of the set from The Chess Piece were half that of most of the other sets. There could be several reasons. First, my sample size, except for the three Marshall sets, was one. That's not a good number for any kind of statistics. It could also mean that one craftsman made all the pieces, instead of one person making black, another white, or bishops instead of rooks, etc. I like to think that extra care was taken to ensure the set was as good as could be.

Oh yeah, I purchased my HOS 4.4" Collector set from their Outlet page. It almost seemed like two or three of the pieces were mix and matched form other sets. They look the same to the eye but had enough variation in size and weight to make me think they were replacements. So that skewed the data for that set.

I guess all I can really take away from this is that whoever made the set for The Chess Piece is close to par with some of the best makers out there.

Where is Steve Livingstone these days ?

Steve is the guy at The Chess Piece, right? I haven't contacted them in about five years, since I bought that set from them.

I found my old thread where I posted about this set. There's not many pictures but it is what it is.
https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-equipment/antiqued-staunton-set-from-thechesspiece

<Sorry about the delay. I had to go mow my dandelions before it started raining again.>

There is more than a way a company can open office in Canada... you really will need to show more than this paragraph to get your point across...

House Of Staunton buy in bulk, no because that is the "ethical" thing to do, bulk is cheaper... why don't they hire woodcarvers in US? why they go to a cheapo country?

The problem here is basic and simple... Back in the 90's finding chess factories in India was a whole ordeal, today they are posting themselves in Alibaba.com and they are 1 click away... they sell in bulk to whoever have the cash and apparently some of them are also willing to ship on a single bases.

It makes it harder for a company like House of Staunton to compete... but then again... that is not my problem, is it?

House of Staunton buy form Nitin Enterprice, right?

https://in100430944.trustpass.alibaba.com/company_profile.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.3677412eq95SBd#top-nav-bar

Canada company buy form Mandeep, right?

https://kunwarnoor.fm.alibaba.com/company_profile.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.0.0.3677412eq95SBd#top-nav-bar

Carl buys form Mandeep too...

Anyway... you are not really going to guilt shame people into "ethical" shipping, lol

House of Staunton is the company that have being financing USCF for years so USCF keep choosing their stuff as official USCF equipment. HoS even runs a mirror website store but with the USCF branding:

https://www.uscfsales.com/

No that I consider unethical that HoS bough over a "non for profit" jsut for.. profit. LOL

For me it is all business...

But seriously your problem is bigger than some company in Canada... more and more people will cash will figure out how to bring that product from India, the Indian manufacturers are each time around more and more accessible to the consumer, today I can buy from Alibaba a chess set direct from the same manufacturer HoS i buying their bulks...

I hope admin allows my reply...

We do not buy from mandeep for reasons already discussed. As I say some have morals and some do not and that extends to claiming to be in one country and shipping from elsewhere, tax avoidance tax dodging is the exact same thing, which was my point. But sure I can accept some call it a better business model. 

In regards to your comment " our problem is " we have no problems and are not hindered by these so called manufacturers who want to take their " middle man " money selling wares to them and in the same breath, undercutting them with the same sets ! It's disgraceful in my opinion. 

But I made the decision not to retail in the USA or Canada anymore. I'm sick of the conflict these Indians have caused between retailers by their disloyslies...So pulling away from the USA market allows Frank Shawn and others a better chance of survival in sales terms and gives me peace of mind to be honest. We do extremely well within Europe and are thriving. There are probably only 1 or 2 very loyal manufacturers remaining in amritsar, the rest of them thought it was a good idea to go direct to retail, but I can tell you, they're suffering badly as it has backfired ....what goes around etc ...

Red in is my answer... I am mostly tired at this point, i gues you will jsut repeat the same 3 things again, so go for it...

yes, he is or was the owner, the website doesn't seem to be operational to some extent, so wondering if he was still in business? he is a really nice guy and has been in the chess business for as long as I can remember. 

 Hummmm I went to Staunton Castle. What they are selling is $&!@. I wouldn't buy a thing from them. Most of it looks like something my dog might have played with, buried in a hole, and then dug up. Then some body picked it up, slapped way too much high glass poly on it, then tried to to tell me it has the "Antiqued" or "Distressed"  look. It does indeed looked "Distressed".  I too would be quite "Distressed" if I paid more than $10 for their %#@&. Contrary to their own self promotion that they sell the "World's Finest Handcrafted Wooden Chess Sets", I saw virtually ZERO that looks original that they have not copied  -- usually quite poorly -- and then trying to sell sell it to the gullible. I can assure you that HoS, OS, and NoJ have nothing to fear from these pretenders. You buy a set from any of these companies, and to a lesser extent even CB -- that sets the bar REALLY low -- at least you know you are buying a QUALITY product, when you buy from these pretenders you are buying JUNK!!

What is being lost here is that because HoS, OS, et al have their sets carved in India, that they are somehow "exploiting" the Indian carvers. Sorry. HoS goes to India (if indeed that is where they have their sets carved), looking for the best and most talented carvers, and they hire them to to carve sets -- the designs of many are frequently seen first in HoS Sets -- and they then sell them world wide to collectors. Most of these sets are works of art and push the edges of the Staunton design.  Now you have a no-name company in Canada crying Foul, because the likes of House of Staunton and OS are find the most talented Indian carvers to produce their products, while the best Staunton Castle can come up with are sets that they are copying and mass producing by semi talented carvers. Their motto seems to be if it is not too bad, then throw some dirt on it, dunk it in high gloss poly, and sell it as "Distressed" or "Antiqued".  I'd buy from CB (a company I hold in pretty low regard ) before I'd ever consider buying from these pretenders. At least I can truthfully say is that at least CB keeps working to improve the quality of their sets, and you can see it over time. 

@azbobcat, Because Staunton Castle is a chess manufacturer, you can ask for the chess pieces to be made non-distressed. Took about a week for my Dubrovnik 1950 to be ready for shipment. Here's a review I wrote. 

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-equipment/non-antiqued-1950-dubrovnik-from-staunton-castle

Actually you are correct, it is called the Just In Time business model where you try to keep as low an inventory as possible to avoid warehousing etc.  Actually the Gravy Train for Staunton Castle may come to a screeching halt soon: They need to keep BOOKS of every sale they make. Say they are a CANADIAN Company, they need to have a CANADIAN BUSINESS Lic. they need to REPORT their SALES -- regardless of if the sales are sent from sets made directly in India or from a warehouse in Canada, and based on those SALES the Company can be TAXED  -- its called a SALES TAX.

For a very, very long time one of the ways CONSUMERS got around paying a SALES TAX was to buy ONLINE, and by doing so neither the seller or the buyer paid any SALES TAX. Not so any more. Everything you buy online now has added SALES TAX on top of the purchase price.

The ONLY way Staunton Castle would be in DEEP TROUBLE is if 1) the car not Registered to do business in Canada. I they are not a registered business with a business lic., but they are selling commodities made in India which they directly control to consumers, if someone calls them on it they had best be able to produce the paperwork that show they are a legitimate Canadian business. If they can't produce the paper work they will be shut down, and their business shuttered.  2) They had best be keeping an accurate set of books on each set they sell, for which they should be collecting TAXES which must then be turned over the Canadian Government.  If they are keeping fraudulent books, see 1) above. 

There is NOTHING WRONG with the Just In Time Model, but if a customer orders something you had best be able to send it to them in a reasonable amount of time or you might get sued. Hence "Just In Time". Even if your entire inventory is in India, if you are doing Business in Canada you still need to keep track of every set you sell, and you still need to collect the SALES TAX which is then sent to the Canadian Government.

The question that I wonder is this: This one fellow is complaining about HoS, OS, et al "exploiting the "poor Indian carvers" then selling their wares at much higher prices. The question that needs to be asked is this: HOW is STAUNTON CASTLE making any money?!? Do THEY employ Indian Carvers, and even if they are selling these sets online then WHERE DOES THE MONEY FOR THESE SETS GO?? If it goes into the pockets of the owners of Staunton Castle then *THEY* are just as guilty of "exploiting those same poor Indian carvers" as HoS, OS, et. al. Just because they are an INDIAN company makes them no better or worse than HoS, OS, et. al. In other words they are a bunch of hypocrites.

OTOH if Staunton Castle is just a clearing house for a bunch of Indian carvers, with each carver receiving 100% of the sets he produces, given that sets are not signed, and their are a million reproduction of the Jaques Staunton pieces out there I would buy a single set of Staunton Castle as the is ZERO QUALITY CONTROL. You might get an excellent copy, or a really poor copy. This is where HoS OS, et al., and yes even CB (!) as of late wins hands down: They have fairly stringent QUALITY CONTROL standards. that must be met. But that goes without saying: they went in search of the BEST CARVERS to produce their sets. You can pick any two sets at random and they will be virtully identical -- if there is a flaw it is so minescule  that  even a close inspection of identical pieces will not catch it. HoS was the first to hold their carvers to this standard.

 That may will be but after going through their website and looking at the sets they were offering I did not see a set I would want to buy. I've seen sets by HoS, OS, NoJ, and others that were far superior in terms of fit and finish. If you throw a bunch of dirt on something, and dip it in high gloss poly, the question becomes, "What are they trying to HIDE"?  What they *should* have done is produce a pristine set and said said something like "Also available in Distressed". One should not have to wait or request a set be sold as NON-DISTRESSED. In my perusal of Staunton Castle's website I found only TWO sets that I thought were reasonably well carved,  but the question is they looked very , very familiar, and looked like they had been COPIED from someone else (HoS? OS? JoL? NoJ? ). If *I* can see problems in the QUALITY of the pieces based on their website photos, then WHY would I want to BUY or even TRUST them?!?  Sorry, that's just me. From what I saw in their catalog, I wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole. I'd buy from CB before I bought from Staunton Castle, at least CB has worked really hard to improve the QUALITY of their set, and it is quite apparent.   

Well, here's Cooke 3.5 from Official Staunton:

https://www.officialstaunton.com/products/3-5-antique-boxwood-ebony-cooke-reproduction-chess-pieces

And here's Cooke 3.5 from Staunton Castle:

https://stauntoncastle.com/products/vintage-1849-50-morphy-cooke-4-4-reproduction-chess-set

Is OS far superior in terms of fit and finish? Personally, I think they both look great. On closer inspection, OS is simply using Staunton Castle's photos. If you go look and compare the webpages of respective companies, the amount of detail and wealth of photos provided by SC is far superior.

This is simply because it is a set from mandeep which we still have in stock , hope that clears that up for you 

Oh... okay. That make sense. Now I understand why you feel sick of the conflict they've caused. My apologies for touching your sore spot. 

That's a steal, you won't be dissapointed, sound. 

Their shipping fee costs less than a bus fare to my office. Unbelievable.

weve now removed our mandeep sets, will list them on ebay for £120 each just to avoid confusion

sound67, take it easy.  azbobcat did not say they were a clearing house.  He said, “if”.  He was just talking about business costs and profits.

What he did claim, that makes a lot of sense is that in Canada they need to report all their sales, in Canada, and pay taxes to Canada for those sales.  If the product is sold in London, for instance, then that company is responsible to the British government for those sales.  And likewise if the company is located in India they are answerable to the government in India for that business.

As I said, take it easy.  The ill intentioned posters on here have been quieted.  azbobcat is a good fellow.

He is pointing out an objective fact of retail business.

Also, just because he doesn’t like the looks of a product and says so, does not mean he is flag waving at all.

He talked about the look of the product.  He did not say if that same product were made in the USA it would be better, sheesh.

I agree with him on the distressed look.  And that is personal preference.  And I have said that when it was offered for sale by a British company and also by a USA company.  We don’t care where the product was made or sold.  If it looks crappy, to us, it’s crappy looking.

For the third time, take it easy.  Read what he wrote about the business separately from his complaint of the crappy look of the distressed product.