Rd 6 Candidates 2020: Suppose Nepo tests Positive for Wuhan Virus?

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Avatar of SmyslovFan

Yeah, I've been reading quite a bit on social media about Carlsen and FIDE. People are acting very upset. I understand that people are home and have nothing else to get excited about. I'm there too. But some of the comments are quite extreme.

Avatar of MathsMaths0

Maybe they should restart the tournament, but give the players 1/3 of the prize money now depending on their standings or something.

Avatar of Ziryab

There is no right course. There is only the course that commits the fewest, or the least significant errors.

Avatar of SeniorPatzer
MathsMaths0 wrote:

Maybe they should restart the tournament, but give the players 1/3 of the prize money now depending on their standings or something.

 

Sounds reasonable.  Restart including both Radjabov and MVL.   Compensate the players who played already with a money distribution according to their standings after 7 rounds.  MVL and Nepo lose their +2, but at least they are financially compensated for having to start over again.  Ding obviously is ecstatic at getting a fresh start if this actually happens.

 

But I am dubious if FIDE actually does a fresh restart that includes GM Radjabov.

Avatar of SmyslovFan

Radjabov isn't winning any friends that matter with his threats of legal action. Social media may like him, but that's not the full story.

Avatar of SmyslovFan

This is Magnus' take:

"I think, maybe this is just my take at the moment, and I’m sure not everybody will agree, but to me I feel like having completed 7 rounds has some merit – at least we tried, which I think in these days should not be discounted as nothing! I feel as though obviously this situation is chaotic and all those people who called for the tournament to be postponed from the start are going to say, “I told you so” at this point, but I do feel as though they tried what they could and now it’s just not possible so they have to get the players out safely." (as reported on Chess24.com)

Avatar of llamonade2
SeniorPatzer wrote:
MathsMaths0 wrote:

Maybe they should restart the tournament, but give the players 1/3 of the prize money now depending on their standings or something.

 

Sounds reasonable.  Restart including both Radjabov and MVL.   Compensate the players who played already with a money distribution according to their standings after 7 rounds.  MVL and Nepo lose their +2, but at least they are financially compensated for having to start over again.  Ding obviously is ecstatic at getting a fresh start if this actually happens.

 

But I am dubious if FIDE actually does a fresh restart that includes GM Radjabov.

AFAIK they signed an agreement that all the games they played will count. No do overs.

Avatar of llamonade2
SmyslovFan wrote:

Radjabov is demanding "justice". According to Aristotle, justice is the equal treatment of equals. Seven of the candidates operated in solidarity and played until they were forced to stop halfway through the event. 

Gata Kamsky suggests that FIDE start from 0 with a nine player Candidates. That may be what ends up happening, but FIDE's current plan of continuing where they left off with MVL replacing Radjabov is probably the most "just".

Social media is on fire over this, with many people who don't have anything better to do calling for FIDE to resign over this. I understand being in a "Stay-home" state myself, but I recognize that FIDE is in a no-win situation. Anything they do will be criticized, and the timing of whatever they do will also be criticized. 

Wow, I didn't realize it heated up that much.

I feel like I'm the opposite. Either way I don't really care what they do. Chess isn't life or death so it just doesn't feel that important to me...

And it's not like I'm dispassionate by nature about these things. I hated that they left MVL out, even made a snarky post about it https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/mvl-co-leader-at-candidates

I guess when it comes to COVID I feel like there are bigger things to worry about than whether a chess tournament continues or not.

Avatar of SmyslovFan

It's interesting that the participants have mostly decided to keep quiet except to say they made it home. There's a lot of animus on social media, and many suggestions. 

I am liking the idea that Radjabov be given an automatic slot in 2022. In truth, it's not that long to wait considering how long the coronavirus will be shutting down major events. 

Avatar of llamonade2
SmyslovFan wrote:

It's interesting that the participants have mostly decided to keep quiet except to say they made it home. There's a lot of animus on social media, and many suggestions. 

I am liking the idea that Radjabov be given an automatic slot in 2022. In truth, it's not that long to wait considering how long the coronavirus will be shutting down major events. 

Sure that sounds fair... but a lot of things were fair. It was fair to invite MVL last cycle and this one, but they didn't, so it feels inconsistent if FIDE started being swayed by what's fair.

But sure, it would be an improvement. Kick out the bum 2600 whatever-his-name-is and invite some more top 10 players.

Avatar of SeniorPatzer

The chaos continues.  

https://www.chess.com/news/view/azerbaijan-team-open-letter-fide-radjabov

 

Excerpts: 

"Members of the national chess team of Azerbaijan have written an open letter in which they demand that FIDE puts GM Teimour Radjabov back into the Candidates tournament. Meanwhile, GM Sergey Karjakin has expressed his support for Radjabov.

Chess.com received the open letter on Friday evening, March 27. It was signed by five top Azerbaijani players: GMs Shakhriyar Mamedyarov, Gadir Guseinov, Rauf Mamedov, Arkadij Naiditsch, and Nijat Abasov.

The players express their support to Radjabov and criticize the International Chess Federation, stating that FIDE "violated the principles of the standard selection procedure in sports" by separating the Candidates tournament in two parts. Furthermore, they demand that FIDE restores the world championship qualification cycle for Radjabov.

...

FIDE President Arkady Dvorkovich has already made clear that he is not intending to give Radjabov a chance to return:

“Half the tournament has already passed, 28 great chess games have been played, some of which will be studied and analyzed for a long time. This situation cannot be compared at all with a complete cancellation of the tournament. Teimour has made a decision, and it was his choice. We would have guaranteed him the same safety measures and medical examination as the other participants.""

 

Avatar of SmyslovFan

Giri has tweeted in favor of including Radjabov. But I'm not convinced by his reasoning.

 

Avatar of SeniorPatzer
SmyslovFan wrote:

Giri has tweeted in favor of including Radjabov. But I'm not convinced by his reasoning.

 

 

That's not insignificant.  Can you link to the tweet or reproduce it?

Avatar of SmyslovFan
 
"After days of contemplating I finally solved the @rajachess dilemma. In fact it is very easy. If you think he wants to play and is a hero- let him play as a reward. If you think he doesn't want to play and is a villain- let him play as a punishment. Easy!" ~Anish Giri on Twitter
Avatar of BonTheCat
SmyslovFan wrote:

Radjabov is demanding "justice". According to Aristotle, justice is the equal treatment of equals. Seven of the candidates operated in solidarity and played until they were forced to stop halfway through the event. 

As far as I understand it, this is not factually correct. At least four players, Teimour Radjabov, Wang Hao, Ding Liren, Alexander Grischuk expressed their opinion openly before the tournament started that it ought to be postponed. Only Radjabov withdrew.

In my view (for the reason I stated in my original post), I think Radjabov has every cause to feel aggrieved (whatever Carlsen thought at one point).

But as has already been pointed out, at this point, there are no good solutions. Whatever is decided there are always one or more players who will feel aggrieved, although of course llamonade2 has a very valid point. It's only a game.

Avatar of llamonade2

This would be terrible for sponsors, and I don't recommend it, but candidates tournament invitations like this would make sense:

All of the top 10 players (excluding the world champ) are automatically invited. The only other stipulation being a player needs to have played in at least 4 "super" tournaments that year to qualify.

Avatar of BonTheCat

llamonade2: Totally disagree, and this is my main gripe with both the current and the previous Fide administration. I'm with Karpov on this: each spot in the Candidates Tournament should be earned at the board in proper, dedicated qualification tournaments. No wild cards, no rating spots, no places from a mix of a tournament series to which only 20 odd players are invited, and knockout tournaments and opens where all and sundry can play. Nor should there be a mix a of time controls or 'disciplines' (i.e. no rapidplay and blitz). 'Lemonade justice' will obviously never be achieved, but at least some sort of reversion to the old system with dedicated qualifiers. Top 10 players have to prove over the board against the 'rest' that they're deserve their qualification.

 

Avatar of llamonade2

Ratings are earned at the board, and separate the players by strength. There's no better way to determine who is best to challenge the world champion than the best performers at super tournaments.

If you want the old qualification cycle, with zonal tournaments followed by matches, that's pretty good, first of all because it could attract sponsors, but it takes a long time.

Anyway my idea isn't bad in terms of selecting the best, it just isn't romantic enough for you tongue.png

If you want to point out my idea will never be implemented because it's impractical, then you'd be right.

Avatar of Ziryab

The only way to determine the best opponent for a match with the world champion is through a series of qualifying matches. Obviously FIDE has rejected that system.

Avatar of BonTheCat

llamonade2: I don't expect my vision to be realized, no. However, my main gripe with the current system is that many of today's top tournaments are basically played off with fields consisting almost exclusively of the world's top 10-15 players - the same faces over and over again. When those players do enter the more prestigious opens (like Gibraltar, Isle of Man, Abu Dhabi, and so on), they actually don't do fantastically well. It's much 'easier' to score 50% against an average field of E2750 than it is to score a E2750 performance against a more mixed bunch, requiring you to score +3 or +4 (and in the Olympiads, Carlsen, Anand and other strong players have underperformed on more than one occasion).

They used to do what you suggest for the first couple of Candidates Tournaments (including the San Luis 2005), so on the grounds of impracticality, I don't think there are any real obstacles. Having said that, no qualifiers at all is not a very fair system (San Luis was organized with the aim of unifing the chess world). If we're only going on rating and requiring the top players to compete in all super tournaments, we get the problem of what is a super tournament, and how to proceed when super tournaments disappear. Since the year 2000 several super tournaments have gone and others come. Linares and Sofia to name two are no more, and instead we have St Louis has come. London is still there, but the format has changed several times. Not to mention the difficulty they already have in finding organizers and sponsors of the Fide Grand Prix, which are supposed to act as official qualifiers (and there's always a cloud hanging over Wijk aan Zee). Sponsorship in general is a difficult issue, and hopefully the new Fide can actually do something about this. Finally, of course, we have the trouble of invitations to the super events. There are several of the nearly forty E2700+ players who hardly ever get invitations to them.