4.Qh5+ Ke7 (g6 Qe5 wins) 5.Qxe5+..Kf7 6.Bc4+..Kg6 7.Qf5+...Kh6 8.d4+....g5 9.h4+-
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 f6 3. Nxe5 fxe5 ?
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3.Nxe5 fxe5?? 4.Qh5+. Simple as that.
White either gains a rook if Black plays 4...g6, or Black displaces his king in an open and dangerous position if he goes with Ke7. Unfortunately, I'm unaware of any forced checkmate with best play by White, but you really don't need to worry about it if Black retakes the knight because Black's position is already THAT bad. In fact, you should find it hilarious if Black plays 2...f6? against you, because he obviously has zero idea what he's doing.
Oh, and as for the line directly above given by G-Polizoti, Black can play 6...d5 as an "improvement" over 6...Kg6??, but his position is already lost anyway.
White is simple winning after 3...fe. There is no need to learn forced variations, because nobody is so dumb to play like this with Black. Instead of 3...fe Black has 3...Qe7, which is only "much better" for White.
Actually, here's all you really need to know about the opening and why it's bad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damiano_Defence
You're welcome.
Jan 24, 2015
0
#6
I didn't even bother learning that. Just 3. Bc4 and white is much better, as black's development makes no sense and it will be a real pain figuring out how to castle kingside as black.
EDIT: What I meant by this is that I didn't bother learning anything beyond Nxe5 fxe5 Qh5 (which I actually once got in one of my first games), like I didn't know about Nxe5 Qe7 or whatever
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Jan 25, 2015
0
#9
dpnorman wrote:
I didn't even bother learning that. Just 3. Bc4 and white is much better, as black's development makes no sense and it will be a real pain figuring out how to castle kingside as black.
This is true. 3. Bc4 is actually the most popular response to Damiano's Defense, per 365chess. Some opening books mark the knight sacrifice with a "!", however ("3. Nxf5!"), meaning it is the best move. One of the fascinations for me of Damiano's Defense is that if we ever start getting some really far-sighted chess programs then I believe it will be an opening like Damiano's Defense where computers will start announcing the most distant middlegame mates we've ever seen, like "White mates in 21." Imagine how discouraging it would be to play against a computer that announced that, knowing that you're probably going to make one of the weaker moves along the way that cuts that number down to mate in 18 or so!
As White I always play 3. Nxe5, even though it may not be the best move.
Until today my opponents had always responded with 3. ... fxe5 
Sqod wrote:
dpnorman wrote:
I didn't even bother learning that. Just 3. Bc4 and white is much better, as black's development makes no sense and it will be a real pain figuring out how to castle kingside as black.
This is true. 3. Bc4 is actually the most popular response to Damiano's Defense, per 365chess. Some opening books mark the knight sacrifice with a "!", however ("3. Nxf5!"), meaning it is the best move. One of the fascinations for me of Damiano's Defense is that if we ever start getting some really far-sighted chess programs then I believe it will be an opening like Damiano's Defense where computers will start announcing the most distant middlegame mates we've ever seen, like "White mates in 21." Imagine how discouraging it would be to play against a computer that announced that, knowing that you're probably going to make one of the weaker moves along the way that cuts that number down to mate in 18 or so!
Really? In my own database, Nxe5 is the most popular third move, and most of the online databases I'm looking at support that. Might just be something with the games for 365chess.
No matter what, we can agree on one thing without debate: Daimano's Defense is just plain bad.
ViktorHNielsen wrote:
3.Bc4 is as spectacular as ever.
Jan 25, 2015
0
#14
drybasin wrote:
Really? In my own database, Nxe5 is the most popular third move, and most of the online databases I'm looking at support that. Might just be something with the games for 365chess.
No matter what, we can agree on one thing without debate: Daimano's Defense is just plain bad.
Yes, here's the URL, though you might have to join 365chess to see the page...
http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=5&n=830&ms=e4.e5.Nf3.f6&ns=3.5.5.830
The stats on that page for 3rd move attacks by White are...
| Next Move | # of Games | Last Played | Winnings percentage White / Draw / Black |
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| 3. Bc4 | 53 | 2007 |
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| 3. Nxe5 | 34 | 2007 |
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| 3. Nc3 | 34 | 2007 |
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| 3. d4 | 15 | 2012 |
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| 3. d3 | 3 | 2006 |
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| 3. Be2 | 2 | 2000 |
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| 3. b3 | 1-0, Glynn vs. Demski | ||||||||||||||||||
| 3. g3 | 1-0, Clark vs. Carter (721) | ||||||||||||||||||
| 3. Bb5 | 0-1, Cabral vs. Tavares | ||||||||||||||||||
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I wouldn't say Damiano's Defense is outright "bad," just very weak. I use it to make very weak opponents feel better when they're playing White when I want to give them a chance to win. Here's one example of an OTB game where I did that a couple weeks ago:
Sqod wrote:
White / Draw / Black 3. Bc4 53 2007 79.2 % 3. Nxe5 34 2007 91.2 % 3. Nc3 34 2007 85.3 % 14.7 % 3. d4 15 2012 66.7 % 33.3 % 3. d3 3 2006 33.3 % 66.7 % 3. Be2 2 2000 50 % 50 % 3. b3 1-0, Glynn vs. Demski 3. g3 1-0, Clark vs. Carter (721) 3. Bb5 0-1, Cabral vs. Tavares
drybasin wrote:
Really? In my own database, Nxe5 is the most popular third move, and most of the online databases I'm looking at support that. Might just be something with the games for 365chess.
No matter what, we can agree on one thing without debate: Daimano's Defense is just plain bad.
Yes, here's the URL, though you might have to join 365chess to see the page...
http://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=5&n=830&ms=e4.e5.Nf3.f6&ns=3.5.5.830
The stats on that page for 3rd move attacks by White are...
Next Move # of Games Last Played Winnings percentageWhite / Draw / Black 3. Bc4 53 2007 79.2 % 3. Nxe5 34 2007 91.2 % 3. Nc3 34 2007 85.3 % 14.7 % 3. d4 15 2012 66.7 % 33.3 % 3. d3 3 2006 33.3 % 66.7 % 3. Be2 2 2000 50 % 50 % 3. b3 1-0, Glynn vs. Demski 3. g3 1-0, Clark vs. Carter (721) 3. Bb5 0-1, Cabral vs. Tavares
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I wouldn't say Damiano's Defense is outright "bad," just very weak. I use it to make very weak opponents feel better when they're playing White when I want to give them a chance to win. Here's one example of an OTB game where I did that a couple weeks ago:
I'll have to look through those databases, then, both mine and that one, because those numbers you provided are honestly surprising. You may be right there.
However, I do maintain that the Daimano's defense is bad, and not because it does a horrible job of defending that pawn, but because if you didn't want to keep that e-pawn, there's a number of other moves that you can play anyway (not counting Latvian and Elephant Gambits or the Petroff) that don't defend the pawn and can still be of some use, such as 2...c6, where you can at least try to set up a solid position. 2...f6 really doesn't do anything other than impede your own development, both on the f6 square and with the time wasted with Qe7 and Qxe4, although you could argue that the latter is compensated by the retreating of the knight after the capture.
Jan 25, 2015
0
#16
drybasin wrote:
I'll have to look through those databases, then, both mine and that one, because those numbers you provided are honestly surprising. You may be right there.
However, I do maintain that the Daimano's defense is bad, and not because it does a horrible job of defending that pawn, but because if you didn't want to keep that e-pawn, there's a number of other moves that you can play anyway (not counting Latvian and Elephant Gambits or the Petroff) that don't defend the pawn and can still be of some use, such as 2...c6, where you can at least try to set up a solid position. 2...f6 really doesn't do anything other than impede your own development, both on the f6 square and with the time wasted with Qe7 and Qxe4, although you could argue that the latter is compensated by the retreating of the knight after the capture.
Well, notice that although 3. Bc4 is more popular, 3. Nxe5 wins 91% of the games whereas 3. Bc4 wins only 79% of the games! 365chess apparently is organized by move popularity, not by move effectiveness.
I agree that 2...f6 is worse than wasting a move since it exposes Black's kingside. Note that even with 2..a6, Black could recover his lost e-pawn pawn (I believe) with 3. Nxe5 Qe7, so it seems Black has a lot of leeway on his 2nd move if his only goal is survival. I suppose it's just a judgment call whether to call a move "weak" (?!) versus "bad" (?). The criterion I use is that if a move loses the game it's "bad" but if it's not clear it loses the game but causes many problems then it's "weak."
There is no forced checkmate if Black plays correctly after 3...fxe5. White can achieve a position with a large material plus, but this position is not an automatic win like most players believe it is. Black has a large development lead, and White has some difficulty placing his own King. The kingside is shaky because of the h2-h4 move, and castling long will take some time.
In fact, post #13 contains an inaccuracy. 10.Qa5! is the right move, forcing the return of an ENTIRE piece via 10...Nc6. So after, say, 11.Bxc6 Rb8 12.Qxa7 White is up five (5!) pawns. This line is sometimes called the "Five Pawns Gambit" for this reason. 10.Qb5?, while still a White advantage, doesn't give White as much material and Black has the same type of compensation as the main line.
A while ago I read someone claim that this opening can lead to a forced checkmate on black if white plays correctly. I'm trying to test out that claim and I can't make it work.
So, I guess my question is this: if black moves up f6 to protect the pawn in such an opening, is there any value in white taking the pawn in the third move (Nxe5) in order to lure black into taking the knight (fxe5), or is losing the knight like this in fact a foolish move for white?