A Bust to the Sicilian Defense

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staples13

You need to be more patient KindaSpongey. Brilliant analysis takes time to produce

kindaspongey

I gather that, as yet (about five days after #74), you do not feel that you have a bust to the Sicilian after 1 e4 c5 2 c3 Nf6.

("In my opinion the Sicilian Defense is busted. It loses by force. ..." - staples (~7 days ago))

kindaspongey

By the way, after 1 e4 c5, is your chosen move 2 c3 or 2 Nf3 ?

HorribleTomato

What I saw was you playing someone with a 200 pts lower rating who made all the worst possible moves.

staples13
kindaspongey wrote:

I gather that, as yet (about five days after #74), you do not feel that you have a bust to the Sicilian after 1 e4 c5 2 c3 Nf6.

("In my opinion the Sicilian Defense is busted. It loses by force. ..." - staples (~7 days ago))

The Sicilian is busted. Whether or not you believe that does not change what’s true. 

I will continue to help you see that it is busted by continuing to show that each line you guys come up with loses, and Nf6 will be the next line I demonstrate. I’m sure once I do that you’ll come up with a new line for me to refute. 

Black can always play differently in which case he merely loses differently. 

HolographWars

No. There is an appropriate counter to the Alaphin.

 

kindaspongey
"In my opinion the Sicilian Defense is busted. It loses by force. ..." - staples (#1, ~7 days ago)

"... Black has 2 main move , 2...d5, ... and 2...Nf6 ..." - UzayAltay (#12, ~7 days ago)

"... I think you should back up your claim with more reasons why 2...d5 or 2...Nf6 might fail for Black. ..." - wiahwib (#32)

"... Yes d5 and nf6 do provide much stiffer resistance than any of black's other responses. I, however, believe black is still lost even after these moves. I will post an analysis shortly." - staples13 (#38)

"... I’m gonna analyze nf6 ..." - staples13 (#74)

staples13 wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:

I gather that, as yet (about five days after #74), you do not feel that you have a bust to the Sicilian after 1 e4 c5 2 c3 Nf6. ...

The Sicilian is busted. Whether or not you believe that does not change what’s true. 

I will continue to help you see that it is busted by continuing to show that each line you guys come up with loses, and Nf6 will be the next line I demonstrate. I’m sure once I do that you’ll come up with a new line for me to refute. 

Black can always play differently in which case he merely loses differently. 

I gather that you do not want to currently (about 5 days after #74) identify a bust for the Sicilian after 1 e4 c5 2 c3 Nf6. I guess that, for now, people will have to come to their own conclusions.

HolographWars

If you want to challenge that statement, play 2. c3 against me in a daily game.

kindaspongey

"... I'm sure you want to see a master level game so here we have Deep Blue vs. Kasparov (1996). For a little historical context this was the first match between them and Kasparov annihilated Deep Blue +3 -1=2. Deep Blue's lone victory came as you might guess playing the Alapin Variation. Kasparov faced a horrible position straight out of the opening and Deep Blue wasted no time converting it. Notice that the most powerful chess player of all time got destroyed playing against a computer much weaker than him. … [After 11. a3,] White's position is better … [After 14. Ne5,] White's position is still already much better … [After 17. Bg5,] White's position is just crushing as this pin on the knight can never be broken without exposing black's king … [After 18...gxf6,] Black's king is completely exposed. From here white's win is just a matter of technique … [After 37. Rxh7+,] Kasparov resigns because Mate in 1 follows ..." - staples13

"... look at the Kasparov Deep Blue game I posted.Kasparov was a lifelong Sicilian player. He knew more about the Sicilian than anyone who's ever lived, and he immediately reached a position straight out of the opening that is just completely lost for black by move 17. This was in the 1996 match when Kasparov was still much stronger than Deep Blue by the way, but he still got destroyed by the Alapin against an opponent much weaker than himself." - staples13

"... Up to [the point of 27. Qc5], the game was basically dead even. 27... d4?! (27... Qg5 28. g3 f4 29. Nd6 Qh5 30. Kg2 fxg3 31. fxg3 Qg6 32. Rc3 d4 33. Rf3 f6 34. Qf5 Qxf5 35. Rxf5 d3 36. Rd5 Ra8

White has the better pawn structure here, but the game is roughly even.) ... [With 32...Re8??,] Kasparov demonstrates that he is human. He was in a slightly worse position due to some minor inaccuracies in the few moves prior, but this is a blunder. (32... Rg5 33. Qxf7 Qxf7 34. Rxf7 Rd5 35. Kf1 Nc1 White is still better, but there is still a lot of work to do here.) 33. Nd6 Of course, even with Deep Blue being significantly weaker than today's engines, it still found these tactics (though, likely did not find the mate in 32 from here) ... 27 moves before he makes an inaccuracy that gives white any sort of advantage - and you think that refutes the opening? ..." - BobbyTalparov

"... I disagree that Kasparov is better until move 27. His knight is put in a brutal pin on move 17 that he can never break without exposing his king and in fact his kingside paw structure does get completely destroyed on move 18. …" - staples13

"... The game was dead even until Kasparov made a mistake on move 27.  He needed to play Qg5 to maintain the balance, and instead played d4, which gave white a strong initiative.  Then he blundered completely on move 32 (which he later admitted was partly due to fatigue and partly due to frustration that he was in a worse position of his own making).  And opening up the g-file is double-edged.  Yes, black loses part of his pawn shield; however, his king will tuck in nicely on h8 and the rook moves over to the g-file staring at white's king.  That is why 27...Qg5 was necessary (it was a mate threat). …" - BobbyTalparov

HolographWars

2. ...d5 is not that good .The line I offered gets easy equality.

svanikb

Sicilian!!!!!!

drmrboss

Come on. Bust sicilian with  Alpin opening.

I will use Droidfish on my S7 , with 1 min of analysis. ( I am just 2000 noob compared to 3400+ Stockfish on my phone).

Your move now, Stockfish play 2... Nf6

null

staples13

e5

drmrboss

3....Nd5

null

staples13

D4

drmrboss

4. ....cxd4null

soni777chess
HolographWars wrote:

2. ...d5 is not that good .The line I offered gets easy equality.

That's a contradiction. All lines for black that get easy equality are good

staples13

Nf3

drmrboss

5.....d6null

HolographWars
soni777chess wrote:
HolographWars wrote:

2. ...d5 is not that good .The line I offered gets easy equality.

That's a contradiction. All lines for black that get easy equality are good

The line I have doesn't require much memorization.