Attacking against Caro-Kann

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tunaozates

Hi friends!Tomorrow,there is an important tournament and i will play against Caro-Kann Defence.I like open games,i must attack and be active.But I hate Caro-Kann Defence.I study on Fantasy Variation(1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3!?,it looks like good.
 What about your advises?Which variation should I play?

JamieKowalski

If you want to get it open quickly, you could try the Panov Attack. Be careful with the Fantasy if you're not familiar with it. 

Panov Attack:



tunaozates

I don't like Panov Attack 4..Nf6 5.Nc3 dxc4 Bxc4 and i have isolated pawn.My NRtg is 1934 and Caro-Kann playing opponent's NRtg is 1629,so i will try very sharp lines.If you have information about f3,can you share with me?

JamieKowalski
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JamieKowalski

If you don't like isolated pawns, watch out for this line in the Fantasy. 1. e4 c6, 2. d4 d5, 3. f3 dxe4 4.fxe4 e5 and you can't reasonably avoid one. 4. Nc3 avoids it if you don't mind giving the pawn.

Mostly, just be careful of exposing your king to queen checks at h4. There are several lines where this can be threatened after an exchange on e4.

tunaozates

I can play 4...e5 5.Nf3 there is no problem

tunaozates

@Jempty_method.My opponent plays simple.I guess he doesn't know Qb6 he will probably play e6 or dxe4.

Radical_Drift

I'm just a patzer, but I now use the advance variation to attack against the Caro-Kann. Maybe it could be the right one for you too.

ChessinBlackandWhite

I like the advance followed by g4, not the best at the top levels, but pretty sharp and fun to play

hakim2005

look at chessexplained video on youtube, he has great video on caro

tunaozates

I played and won.My opponent played very bad.

Thanks jempty_method for variation

Expertise87

I once played against this 4.Ne5 trash in a rated game against a 1900. He lost after getting a miserable position out of the opening, and when we analyzed afterwards, around move 12, he's like 'I think I was still better here...'

(Still better? White can claim an advantage after 4.Ne5 objectively?)

I was quite amused. If I find the game I'll post it, it was pretty pathetic. Apparently my 6th move was a novelty.

Yereslov

This variation used to be really popular.

There is a little trap:




InfiniteFlash
Expertise87 wrote:

I once played against this 4.Ne5 trash in a rated game against a 1900. He lost after getting a miserable position out of the opening, and when we analyzed afterwards, around move 12, he's like 'I think I was still better here...'

(Still better? White can claim an advantage after 4.Ne5 objectively?)

I was quite amused. If I find the game I'll post it, it was pretty pathetic. Apparently my 6th move was a novelty.

I agree, this Ne5 stuff is premature, the evaluation is probably based off an engine. White has no advantage against say a setup with g6/bg7, and develop accordingly. In fact, idk why Jempty recommends playing this garbage, he knows not to violate opening principles, so why now?

Yereslov

Well,there is no obvious refutation, even by computer analysis. It's fully playable.

Yereslov
jempty_method wrote:
Randomemory wrote:
Expertise87 wrote:

I once played against this 4.Ne5 trash in a rated game against a 1900. He lost after getting a miserable position out of the opening, and when we analyzed afterwards, around move 12, he's like 'I think I was still better here...'

(Still better? White can claim an advantage after 4.Ne5 objectively?)

I was quite amused. If I find the game I'll post it, it was pretty pathetic. Apparently my 6th move was a novelty.

I agree, this Ne5 stuff is premature, the evaluation is probably based off an engine. White has no advantage against say a setup with g6/bg7, and develop accordingly. In fact, idk why Jempty recommends playing this garbage, he knows not to violate opening principles, so why now?

Well it worked for the OP and it's far from garbage (maybe slightly sub-optimal, but FAR from garbage) but to each his own.  And I guess the opening principle you are referring to is not to unnecessarily move a piece a second time so early, but sometimes you break the principles.  Here it makes Black's typical ...Bf5 and/or ...Bg4 problematic.  In the Two knights 1. e4 e5  2. Nf3 Nc6  3. Bc4 Nf6  4. Ng5 it takes aim at f7 -- is that garbage too?

Anyway that's all I have to say, again re-iterating, it worked for the OP, and isn't that what counts?

Why would you even worry? Anyone below 2400+ is unlikely to find a refutation.

Irontiger

I don't get the idea behind 4.Ne5. Why not play 4.d4, and if Black plays 4...Bg5 then 5.h3 forces him to give the pair of bishops (because ...Bh5 6.g4 Ne5 then is painful) ?

Irontiger
jempty_method wrote:

Me and Expertise87 are playing a game with the 4. Ne5 variation right now. He has over 200 rating points on me though so it's not necessarily a measure of how bad the opening is if I lose.

Well, no single game with whatever players or result could be.

CrimsonKnight7

I have played the CK for a number of years now, granted against computer only, plus I do not consider myself an expert by any means, however I do not play Bg5 anymore, and naturally transitioned to a Caro/Slav formation, where I develope my Light square bishop on b7.

Playing against the computer for years has taught me not to play that bishop outside my pawn chain. It would be forced traded at whites option if I did (in most cases). White has the choice on how he wants to take that bishop, also to some degree when as well. Not to mention when I castled kingside usually early as possible, White can get a fierce attack generated early by pawn pushes to attack that bishop, with either g4 or h4, bringing up f4 as well.

Often times if not paying attention, white can really mess up blacks kingside pawn structure as well as sometimes even trapping that bishop.

I know this doesn't really answer your question on why 4.ne5, except if you look at the position in many lines, it cramps black's position and basically forces him to trade his knight on d7, because black needs to play either c5 or e5 as early as possible to free up some space.

Some helpful videos to watch even if you can't watch the full video is caro/slav pawn structure 101 5 by IM Danny Rensch, also the previous video in that link of that video. GM Sam Shanklands videos are good too, as well as others, check pawn structures and pawn wedges. Which actually occurs in  some other openings as the CK, Caro/slav, various slavs, some French, and even some Sicilian defenses. I believe you will find the answers you are looking for.

I am no where near your level of playing ability, so am not saying this will definitely help you, but hey, I'm trying, with what knowledge I do have, the best of luck to you.

Expertise87

Whoa, you misread what I said! I asked if you wanted to play a legitimate game with me as White because last time you were Black against me I played the Cochrane.