Bb4 lines Shred the English Opening

According to the Chess.com database, the Kramnik-Shirov Counterattack and the Symslov Variation of the Carls-Brenen System in the English Opening absolutely destroy c4. C4 wins 39% of the time with over 200,000 games considered; however, against the Kramnik-Shirov Counterattack, white wins... 32% of the time. AND black wins 38%. For the Smyslov Variation, white wins 29% OF THE TIME and black wins 40%. This is pretty interesting and shocking for me as an English user. 

There was a forum from 2013 talking about this, too, but I forgot where it was, but isn't that insane?

The Smyslov Variation has been played 2,000 times in the database, btw, and the Kramnik-Shirov Counterattack has been logged 2,800 times in the database.

It seem like that's because more than half of the players didn't know the move that give white an advantage 3. Nd5 which white win 37% and black win 29%

Thanks for the post. I’ve recently learn the English Opening and starting to grasp the concepts to the point I am reviewing the “Explorer” and studying the master games.

Ill check it out.

If you don't want Bb4 to destroy the english play this:

Thank-you cricket7890. I remember this one now and one I like to avoid by accelerating 1.c4, 2. g3.

I have seen Q to c2 as an alternative as well. It's the same concept in the Nimzo where the queen wastes tempo in saving the double pawn damage. I'm not a fan of the knight move either which is also similarly played in the Sicilian. 

A22: King's English: Carls-Bremen System: Smyslov System :

What is this? Do you think that everybody remembers all counterattacks in chess ?!?

Apparently Nd5 and Qb3 are the best two replies.

Sucks for me because I like the fianchetto bishop g2 set up. Which is why I play the 1.c4, 2.g3 accelerated variation.

Or just play straight up the centre without a fianchetto bishop.

yes, if you really want to play a Reversed Dragon that is the way to go. Though I like playing the Four Knights Nimzowitsch English

Ah ok, it's posted by @cricket7890 .

A21: King's English: Kramnik-Shirov Counterattack:

This is kinda Reversed Rossolimo Attack.

The early Bb4 is OK for White, but the lines need to be studied as they do not lead to typical English positions. Against 2. ... Bb4, 3. Nd5 is the best. Some examples of the lines are
https://www.chess.com/games/view/13665809
https://www.chess.com/games/view/13260889
https://www.chess.com/games/view/14064357
https://www.chess.com/games/view/14164533

The insertion of Nf6 and g3 means that Nd5 cannot be played. Some high level sample games include

https://www.chess.com/games/view/15676941

https://www.chess.com/games/view/14451325

It seems that Black has good chances to equalize in this line. This can be avoided by different move orders as was said earlier.

Thanks for the heads up.

I've recently grasp the Reversed Dragon and Botvinnik System. At the moment, I am learning the 1.c4, 2. d3 and 1.c4 2. b3 lines to round out my game so I can steer the game into English territory and avoid transpositions such as the Slav and Catalan.  

Actually, 3. Nf3, 3. Qc2 and 3. g3 are also excellent vs Kramnik-Shirov.

Thanks for all the information all! Great thread.

My goodness I have a lot to study on.

Those 2 lines are probably two of the best tries to equalize in the English, and those 2 lines line would be a great surprise attack in say, the Championship, since it is very likely to equalize with good play. The Chess.com engine apparently finds the Kramnik-Shirov Counterattack to be one of the 3 best replies to the c4 Nc3 set-up, alongside the reversed closed Sicilian and the 2 Knights. 

All in all this is a great niche line which is similar to a Rossolimo, and this can force English players out of purely English positions and make them play in more undiscovered territory.

I mean those 2 lines are SOME of the best tries to equalize, not the 2 best.

haha, sorry

Yea this line killed me earlier this week, then i went a started to study these reverse rosilimo lines. So much theory in the english