Berlin Wall Refutation !!
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chessmicky wrote:
Black is fine in your final position, and would be also fine with 18..,O-O-O
I probably would've played something chickeny like Kf7 but wow... nice find. Yeah according to Stockfish 18...0-0-0 actually just wins for Black.
White has enough counterplay after 18..O-O-O .as the king is no longer protecting the queen.. best is Rd8
Wow, here's other genius who has successfully "refuted" a line commonly played by grandmaster, masters, and experts! Nice job! Which opening will you "refute" next? The Najdorf? The Queen's Gambit? The Nimzo-Indian? I can't wait to find out!
According to Stockfish, Black is better after 19. Nac4.
TheBlunderfulPlayer wrote:
Wow, here's other genius who has successfully "refuted" a line commonly played by grandmaster, masters, and experts! Nice job! Which opening will you "refute" next? The Najdorf? The Queen's Gambit? The Nimzo-Indian? I can't wait to find out!
by refuted I meant a line which doesnt exactly go into the drawish endgame theory that berlin provides
In fact, Black will probably win with proper play!
yeah thats what i wanted to show in this line..its not the usual drawish berlin
Sep 15, 2015
0
#9
Trazaz wrote:
TheBlunderfulPlayer wrote:
Wow, here's other genius who has successfully "refuted" a line commonly played by grandmaster, masters, and experts! Nice job! Which opening will you "refute" next? The Najdorf? The Queen's Gambit? The Nimzo-Indian? I can't wait to find out!
by refuted I meant a line which doesnt exactly go into the drawish endgame theory that berlin provides
Wow! A chess-wannabe-know-it-all that doesn't even know what refuted means.
When an opening, or a single variation, is labelled as "refuted", it means that there is a way for the opposing side to achieve a winning position by force! It does not mean force mate, just the force of a won position.
Deviating from the "norm" is not "refuting".
Based on this fool's definition, I guess the gambit line, 5.e4, refutes the Slav Defense because it ends up more wild and tactical than a Slav Defense game "normally" ends up being!
I've got one word for this entire thread. WEAK!
ThrillerFan wrote:
Trazaz wrote:
TheBlunderfulPlayer wrote:
Wow, here's other genius who has successfully "refuted" a line commonly played by grandmaster, masters, and experts! Nice job! Which opening will you "refute" next? The Najdorf? The Queen's Gambit? The Nimzo-Indian? I can't wait to find out!
by refuted I meant a line which doesnt exactly go into the drawish endgame theory that berlin provides
Wow! A chess-wannabe-know-it-all that doesn't even know what refuted means.
When an opening, or a single variation, is labelled as "refuted", it means that there is a way for the opposing side to achieve a winning position by force! It does not mean force mate, just the force of a won position.
Deviating from the "norm" is not "refuting".
Based on this fool's definition, I guess the gambit line, 5.e4, refutes the Slav Defense because it ends up more wild and tactical than a Slav Defense game "normally" ends up being!
I've got one word for this entire thread. WEAK!
Exactly!
nice refutation, dont listen to ThrillerFan, he's just a hater
Sep 15, 2015
0
#12
casual_chess_yo wrote:
nice refutation, dont listen to ThrillerFan, he's just a hater
Another clueless human being.
pfren wrote:
The Berlin Wall endgame is not "drawish", and if you want to avoid it, then 4.d3 is the established way to do it. Your attempt to reinvent the wheel has no particular value (although the 6.Bg5 variation is not bad).
And in any case, your suggested line against 6...f6 (6...Be7 is less risky, and likely better) is not good. White could (and should) try a very interesting piece sacrifice, which gives him a very dangerous attack. Here is the latest game with it:
White should have won this (e.g. 18.Nxd6 gives a huge advantage, but 18.Rh3! was terminal), but missing the win is understandable. Even engines think initially that white has nothing, and after a while abruptly change their "mind".
10..Be7 by black dissolves the attack
Trazaz wrote:
pfren wrote:
The Berlin Wall endgame is not "drawish", and if you want to avoid it, then 4.d3 is the established way to do it. Your attempt to reinvent the wheel has no particular value (although the 6.Bg5 variation is not bad).
And in any case, your suggested line against 6...f6 (6...Be7 is less risky, and likely better) is not good. White could (and should) try a very interesting piece sacrifice, which gives him a very dangerous attack. Here is the latest game with it:
White should have won this (e.g. 18.Nxd6 gives a huge advantage, but 18.Rh3! was terminal), but missing the win is understandable. Even engines think initially that white has nothing, and after a while abruptly change their "mind".
10..Be7 by black dissolves the attack
That's just one game. The piece sacrifice is sound.
I beg to differ. I'm 100% sure 5. Re1 is a perfectly normal move. Both 5. d4 and 5. Re1 are standard book moves in the Open Berlin. (Book moves are the most popular and the most logical moves in a position.)
Sep 16, 2015
0
#17
TheBlunderfulPlayer wrote:
I beg to differ. I'm 100% sure 5. Re1 is a perfectly normal move. Both 5. d4 and 5. Re1 are standard book moves in the Open Berlin. (Book moves are the most popular and the most logical moves in a position.)
I'm not sure any top level professionals used it.
EDIT: Show me a handbook with three of the top lines being used today and I'll show you why 2 out of 3 of those lines are incorrect.
Make sure you get Lasker's help first.
Aquarius550 wrote:
TheBlunderfulPlayer wrote:
I beg to differ. I'm 100% sure 5. Re1 is a perfectly normal move. Both 5. d4 and 5. Re1 are standard book moves in the Open Berlin. (Book moves are the most popular and the most logical moves in a position.)
I'm not sure any top level professionals used it.
EDIT: Show me a handbook with three of the top lines being used today and I'll show you why 2 out of 3 of those lines are incorrect.
Aquarius, 5. Re1 isn't incorrect at all. Please show me why you consider it incorrect. It's a line played by grandmasters! The move 5. Re1 is the second most popular move after 5. d4. It's approved by opening theory.
