Best defences against the fried liver attack

I used to play the Traxler, but I found that when white doesn't go for the knight fork with Kf7 (as in coneheadzombie's example) or when white does play the fork and black responds with Bxf2+, if white doesn't take the bishop, it's pretty hard to win as black in either case, at least for me! 

I've been playing the Na5 (Polerio?) version, which seems less risky, but not only are you automatically down a pawn as black, but you have isolated a and c pawns and your knight is on the edge for at least the time being. You have good activity and open space in the short term, so I guess I just have to get better at taking advantage of that before white can get his pieces organized, because once that happens, it again becomes hard to win as black, down a pawn and with weak pawns. 

Taffy76's example is of course cool (ending with black forking the white bishop and knight), and I have had someone fall for it, but normally white retreats the bishop to e2. 

Anyone have some good suggestions for proceding as black in the Na5 line after white retreats Be2? 

Yup.

The so-called Yandemirov variation. Not terribly ambitious, but objectively equal- and the best part of it, both sides must play a little chess, without memorizing long lines.

traxler counterattack is the best.

Let's make it happen!

Thanks pfren. That variation looks interesting. I'll give it some tries!

I have to disagree. Before I started playing the main lines in the TKD with c6-dc6-bc6- etc... I tried this variation, and soon noticed that black can not proof enough compensation for the pawn, and there is no way of getting it back. 

At the moment I believe that the whole TKD complex is very difficult to hold as black, and that is thanks to the variations that start when White after c6-dc6-bc6 plays Bd3!. (maybe steinitz was right when he stated that 4.Ng5 is the refutation to the TKD?)  

So I would rather recommend playing the Italian Game, which starts with 3 ... Bc5. 

The best defence is to not get into the Fried liver attack.. Just Na5 not take on d5.

Here you go.

I think the best diffence is to not get into the fried liver attack and play the guicco piano instead.

Ah, I see. So you know more than I do. Congratulations.

You could possibly teach a poor 2600+ GM how to play this, since he was unable to obtain anything without your precious aid:

In my database 5.. b5 scores ridiculously well oddly enough. I don't know anything about these lines but they are fun for sure.

Not him per se but he did quote Steinitz.  4.Ng5 moves the same piece twice in the opening and gives the patzer vibe.  Still one must avoid the temptation to fall into a false sense of confidence, as Englund Gambit players depend on that for Bc3?? instead of Nc3! in the main line. 

Stronger players have more credibility than us, which is why when Bobby Fischer said the king's gambit is busted I gave it up, not that I played it well anyway:

Next game is a win, but I lost the opening because I helped the opponent's activity and later was fishing for a stupid tactical trick that even a class 1200 over the internet calculated that a free pawn was a queen trap:

I'm personally a 3...Bc5 player but aren't afraid of the fried liver attack.

Of course there's always a game of chess to be played, as it is in every variation, I just gave my opinion on that Yandemirov Variation based on my own experience I had with it, and I never felt comfortable, especially when White plays the main line, which is 8.Nc3 not 8.Nf3...

after which play may continue either as in the game

Naiditsch - Graf (Bad Koenigshofen, 2007) 

or if lets say after 8.Nc3 0-0, 9.0-0 c6, 10.dc6 Nxc6, 11.Bxc6 Bxc6, 12.Nf3 here it seems that Black may have the bishop pair and slightly better development, but in my opinion it's questionable if that gives sufficent compensation for a healthy extra pawn...

Funny to mention a game where Nenashev (Graf) blundered badly in a completely equal position...

Sorry to say that I can't see the slightest advantage for white, and Black also has choices.

9...Re8!? is also very interesting (in place of 9...Bxb5).

Inarkiev's 8.Nf3 (also adopted by the chinese GM Li Chao) is surely more testing, but even so white doesn't have much to boast about.

6...Bd7 is a very good move, and, what's most important, it's OTB chess, not memorization of computer moves (the case with 6...c6).

The final position of this example shows that (not only) for an inexperienced player I believe it would be very difficult to proof sufficient compensation, probably because there simply is no compensation...

And as I said in my first post to this thread, I think Black is also struggling in the main lines (c6-dc6-bc6) of the TKD, because of the very strong (8.Bd3, which also aims for slow but safe consolidation of the position and converting material advantage in the future)

why all in all i strongly recommend going for an Italian Game with

3 ... Bc5 

So, you think white is better after, say, 13...Rc8?

If this was a joke, then it wasn't a very good one, I'm afraid...

Mr.Houdini prefers 13...Nd5 14.Nxd5 Qxd5 15.d3 Rfd8 or 15...f6, which rightly evaluates as flat level, but I'd rather try probing white's underdevelopment a tad more than that...

After 5bc5 the white castles

Black castles too, when the Nf3-g5 sortie is at best stupid.

Well maybe the position is about equal, but White has something concrete to play for (material advantage), and I can't see anything concrete on Blacks side yet, though of course I'm not a very high rated player.

In response to the mentioned 13 ... Rc8, I would continue prophylactic play with 14. a3 to simply avoid any b5-b4 ideas... 

Best defense:

Let's make it happen!