Best Setup Against the Colle System

Mandy711

What do you think is the best set-up for black against the Colle system?

Mandy711

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Ubik42

1.d4 d5

2. Nf3 Nf6

3. e3 c5

4. c3 e6

5. Bd3 Nc6

Black has nothing to fear.

TitanCG

The KID is probably the best but there are a number of ways to get a comfortable position out of the opening.

2200ismygoal

I would agree with TitanCG the KID is most likely the acid test of the colle setup.

Arutha_19

I like the Queens Indian setup. Its designed to prevent the big e2-e4 break that the colle needs.

Mandy711

Any setup else? Maybe you can post a game from masters to show how black wins against the Colle system.

Mandy711

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pfren

The "best setup" against any opening is the one you understand best.

The Colle is actually two completely different setups: The Colle-Zukertort (with an early b3 and Bb2) and the Colle-Coltanowski (with c3 and proceeding like a reversed semi-slav).

Black has several reliable ways to counter them- IMO there is no point going into details here.

I will post a recent game I have won as Black against the Zukertort system. Mostly I followed the recommendation of GM Avrukh, and expoited the 2B advantage instructively.



Mandy711

I like the posted game. Black wasted no time in fighting for the control of the center. No wonder no strong GM uses the Colle system. And it has no element of surprise. Black can easily fight for the center or just use his favorite setup like the KID and QID.

johnyoudell

By repute the Colle (either variety) delivers quick victories against weaker opponents but allows easy equality against equal or stronger opponents.

I believe the system is underrated at my level (upper middle club standard). Edgar Colle loved to play king side attacks, typically sacrificing on h6/h7/g6 or f7 and the Colle bishop on d3 is a long standing threat in that regard. So the system has something to offer the aggressive, tactical player. But I am more positionally minded and often find myself expanding on the queen side, (almost always white's e pawn is exchanged for black's d pawn so the least you can get out of the opening is a queen side pawn majority).

Received wisdom is for beginners to play e4 openings rather than d4 so that sharp tactics are quickly encountered. Plainly there is something in that but I suspect a beginner would do well to play the occasional d4 opening so as to aid progress in positional understanding. The two central ideas in the Colle (controlling e4 and exerting pressure along the b1/h7 diagonal) are very easily understood and I have found the system gradually to teach a whole lot about basic positional concepts. Indeed it is still teaching me to-day, fifty years after I first played it. So any beginner or improver and some stronger players might, in my opinion, profit from giving it a run out.

Ambassador_Spock
ChessBooster

depends what kind of game you wan. d7-d5 approach with QD or SLAV setup demands very patient play, maybe some indian KID is perfect with idea e7-e5, yes, white did not develop strong solid center so you have nothing to attack from flanks, but if there is no strong pawn center there is more space for black to organize his position.

pfren

Black's setup in my above game effectively "refutes" the Zukertort. I do not even mean Black has some sort of advantage (he has not), but rather that he is very comfortable, and with a clear plan to play for a win.

The Colle-Coltanowski is more tricky. Playing this as Black (Meran variation) is equal, but highly complex, and occasionally sharp. Playing this as white with a bonus free tempo seems like a good way to achieve some sort of advantage... but unfortunately enough, Black can opt for a totally equal position if he isn't very ambitious.

But, it is sound- white can play like that at any level.

comooooo

 

comooooo

only game in the database i could find of arthur jussupow with the black pieces, but he is a leading expert on the colle(although he only plays it as white if black does Nf6, e6)

kindaspongey

Possibly helpful:
Grandmaster Repertoire 11: Beating 1 d4 Sidelines by Boris Avrukh (2012)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627001415/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen164.pdf
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/GM11-1d4Sidelines-excerpt.pdf
Dealing with d4 Deviations by John Cox (2005)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627032909/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen89.pdf
Playing 1.d4 d5
https://www.chess.com/blog/pfren/playing-1-d5-d5-a-classical-repertoire
https://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/Playing1d4d5-excerpt.pdf
A Practical Black Repertoire With d5, c6
http://www.chess-stars.com/resources/contents_black_rep_d5c61.pdf

Lyudmil_Tsvetkov

Obviously, the best setup is kingside fianchetto with Bg7.

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3? g6, and black has fully equal:

 

c7-c5 is much worse, actually, as there are good chances black will trade its light-square bishop, so c7-c6 is needed to support the d5 pawn, where the white dark-square bishop suddenly becomes bad.

 

pfren
Lyudmil_Tsvetkov έγραψε:

Obviously, the best setup is kingside fianchetto with Bg7.

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3? g6, and black has fully equal:

 

c7-c5 is much worse, actually, as there are good chances black will trade its light-square bishop, so c7-c6 is needed to support the d5 pawn, where the white dark-square bishop suddenly becomes bad.

 

 

Total bullshit, sir. You have no idea what you're talking about.

As a matter of fact, a lot of top players are toying with the 3.e3 lines to bypass the Grunfeld mainlines.

In your diagram, how do you intend to meet 4.c4?

4...c6 5.Nc3 is the Sclechter Slav, which is not easy for Black.

4...dxc4 is a QGA sideline, which is good for white.

4...Bg7 5.cxd5 Nxd5 6.e4 is precisely the reason white has delayed Nb1-c3

4...Bg7 5.cxd5 0-0 is (probably) the best way, but white has a choice of good moves, like 6.Be2.