The main line of the looks like this:'
Black playing e5 in the Sicilian
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After 5.Nb5 black has two main moves-5...a6 and 5...d6, as 5...Nf6 is a transposition to the Sveshnikov. 5...a6 6...Nd6+ is not considered entirely satisfactory for black, but it's rather complicated and can certainly be played on amateur level. 5...d6 is the Kalashnikov. If you play 6.N1c3 a6 7.Na3 b5 8.Nd5 then black has 8...Nge7 and Nce7, along with 8...Nf6, when you can play 9.Bg5 and transpose to the Sveshnikov. However, if you prefer 9.Bxf6 vs the Sveshnikov and don't want to give 9.Bg5 a try, you can play 9.c4 in that position.
Thanks everyone. I prefer FiveSwords suggestion. The main line looks a bit complicated for me to remember.
ChristopherZiffo wrote:
Thanks everyone. I prefer FiveSwords suggestion. The main line looks a bit complicated for me to remember.
It's your right to prefer second rate moves, of course, but you should be warned that after the 5OS "ingenious" suggestion 5.Nf3?! Nf6 6.Bg5 Black has at least equalized with either 6...Qa5+ or 6...Qb6.
As a rule of a thumb, you can ask him about the best move in a position, and then play something different than his suggestion. Your chances to go wrong would have been significantly reduced...
5.Nxc6, which is employed by USCF Master Jim West, is also a second rate move, but at least it does have some idea behind it- unlike 5.Nf3... If you browse a little on his blog, you will find a few commented games on his pet variation- use them at your own risk!
The only real try for an advantage is (of course) 5.Nb5.
Black actually has a backward pawn in the mainline though, that's why this was though unplayable for years before Sveshnikov revived it. If white plays Nf3-d4-f3 instead Black is actually ahead in development.
Fiveofswords wrote:
I have no doubt that pfren's engine thinks black has a good position after qb6 or qa5 But any person with common sense could see that this is not the end of the analysis, and pfren's engine cant help you understand such moves. There are, (of course), still structural issues with blacks position, as well as white still clearly having an advantage in devleopment without a clear way for black to finish his own.
Every schoolboy knows that 5.Nf3 is secondrate, and more than that:
6.Bg5 is imprecise, in view of 6...Qa5+! (a move endorsed by kalashnikov expert Alex Shabalov, and looks very promising: this type of manoeuvre is always worth considering when white plays an early Bg5 [line analysis follows]
(from Tony Rotella's excellent book "The killer Sicilian").
And no, TonyRo does not say you are clueless, and dumb- fortunately for him, he does not know you/ have to withstand your nonsense...
Neither do I; lately I play Kopec system but the point of Nb5 is to force Black to play d6 making the backward pawn and it is an accomplishment when White can put a piece in the outpost, support it, and have the square for the entire game. White isn't getting that by retreating the Knight and no Black is ahead in development at that point. Look at your diagram on move 6. Both sides have a pawn in the center. White has a Knight on f3. Black has a Knight on f6 and c6. It's White to move so after White's move both sides have the same development, but that is the position Black is normally in the opening. White did lose time by moving the Knight forward and back.
I haven't laughed so hard in days man.
Man this forum is funny!
You have some haters on this forum ChristopherZiffo.
They are pretty funny though have to admit lol.
Well ChristopherZiffo all I can say is I play 2 lines against 2...Nc6.
The funny thing is the 2 lines I play haven't even been mentioned on this forum.
Which is pretty funny lol.
The 1 line I play does not relate to this thread.
However, I will show it case you are wondering what it was!
The line is called The Rossolimo Attack
Yeah the line has been played in high level. Actually it is a popular line.
I do believe it is a very simple line to play.
It has some theory. All lines have theory of course.
However, I do not thing the theory is as extreme as the Open Sicilian lines.
So the above is the first line which I have been playing lately against 2...Nc6.
Yeah it was a line recommended to me by a player who talks on forum named Ponz.
Yeah it is a nice little line for sure.
I like to try out other lines from time to time and since someone gave it a mention to me I figured I would try it.
As it turns out I kind of like it! Not to bad lol!
The other line which I like to play fits in with your forum topic question.
True, the line 5.Nb5 d6 6.c4 is established as the mainline. Quite theoretical, e.g. Rotella devotes 115 book pages to it, and he deals only with white possibilities- the Black ones are preset.
Ok it doesn't *really* force d6 but going out of one's way moving the king a few times or playing the Lowenthal (which is probably better than the game in #21?) seem to involve consessions by the 2nd player as well.
At the risk of continuing the argument with Five, open lines are not the same as development. In the position I said Black was ahead Black has two pieces out, White has one. Open lines are good for development, sure, and if both sides had the same number of pieces out you could say that White is not yet ahead in development but will develop smoother because of the open lines, but Black actually does have an extra piece out in the positions in question. (That's not saying Nb5 does better for White's development, Nb5 does all of the other things, nearly forces the pawn weakness on d6.)
Well I do not think people are being agruementative.
I think the problem is everyone has there own special line against this continuation.
It seems clear to me in post #3 FOS has his own pet line.
However, I could say the same for post #4 & 5.
Different ways of playing it seems.
Obviously everyone will be one sided.
I know I am one sided because I love my line better! lol
Dec 10, 2015
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#13
ChristopherZiffo wrote:
Thanks everyone. I prefer FiveSwords suggestion. The main line looks a bit complicated for me to remember.
I guess that if you find a good video or comment about the opening it will be a lot easier for you to remember, if you get the plans it will be more natural to find the right moves.
the first video I got with google...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JkUSGuE3VA
Better keep your money for psychoanalyst- else he will find a prefectly good reason to fly away.
People have been giving Fiveofswords a harder time than I think is warranted here, and maybe Nf3 is a practical choice to avoid theory. Most people avoid the entire Open Sicilian if that's their goal but the fact that his move is written off quickly in every book can mean the opponent might be on their own and not know how to face it. That said, Five is overselling his move by analyzing some pretty bad play by Black against it and showing White having the normal trumps without having to get the Knight chased back.
Dec 10, 2015
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#16
anyway back to the OP question, maybe if you don't like the position you may try to not enter into it, there's way to avoid it you may try with c3 or even b3 (this one is not really common)
In this situation I think I would go with Nb5 next, if I played white. Depending on what move black played next, I would then go with N1c3.
Dec 10, 2015
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#18
Peppinu wrote:
5.Nb5 is the critical move in this line and the Open Sicilian is crucial in getting an advantage as an e4 player.
FiveofSwords is being his usual argumentative self...
What do you expect from a B player (1776) that has played a whopping 20 games that count (Chess.com games are utter cr*p - over the board is where skill is proven)? Arguments that inferior lines are so much better because there's less theory!
Those delusional B-players that think whatever they play is top notch and proven main lines are inferior.
At least I admit that I don't necessarily play the best line against everything. I play it because it works, not because it's so great and is what I would advise others to play.
One of my pet lines is the Prins variation of the Sicilian (1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3). Does that make it the best line in all of chess? Hell No! It simply works for me though.
And there inlies the difference between those on the brink of reaching master, like myself, and the delusional B-players that think their lines are better than anything a GM has played, like FofS.
Dec 10, 2015
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#19
I prefer lines recommended by delusional near-masters as absolutely and unequivocally equalizing in a major opening variation starting on move 3 despite that variation being played by world champions.
What are the main lines after this sequences of moves? Taking the knight on c6 just allows Black to develop.
Nf5 looks untidy.
Nb5 doesnt seem great to me but maybe I am missing something. White can get the Queen lodged in d6 but it is fairly easy for black to push it away.
Nf3 seems like a retreat and will lead to a very symmetrical board with four knights.
Nb3 is a move I have played a lot, but it has problems when I put the second knight on c3 and the white squared bishop on c4- very easy for black to attack those pieces.