X player, I refer you to the other thread where pfren ripped apart your concept of white playing "terrible moves" by showing you a solid dozen top level games where white played exactly the moves you declared as terrible. Lol
oh which thread was that?
X player, I refer you to the other thread where pfren ripped apart your concept of white playing "terrible moves" by showing you a solid dozen top level games where white played exactly the moves you declared as terrible. Lol
oh which thread was that?
Pretty much any thread you've posted in.
The dragon vs. Najdorf thread.
The dragon vs. Najdorf thread.
Thanks for letting me know.
I got a huge laugh out of that thread.
My main problem in adopting the Breyer has been...
No one at my level seems to want to play main lines. Just reaching the quintessential Spanish position after 9.h3 has been rare for me (as either color).
This was the same problem I encountered when I tried the Breyer. It was rare I even got there, so I ditched it.
This is why I go about trying to get to the Closed Spanish via a Modern Steinitz move order. If White doesn't allow my Siesta 5.c3 f5, or doesn't potentially fall for the Noah's Ark trap after 5.d4 b5 6.Bb3 Nxd4, then on 5.0-0 I play 5...b5 (immediately, to avoid White playing his bishop back to c2 in one move if he plays c3 before ...b5) 6.Bb3 Nf6. Now sidelines such as 7.Ng5 d5 or 7.a4 Bg4 will suit us just fine, as they will be sidelines WE are prepared for. Otherwise if White continues with Re1/c3 on the next couple of moves, we play ...Be7 and ...0-0 and voila, closed Ruy
Interesting, I might adopt something like this instead. I like both the delayed stienitz and now that you showed me, the Siesta doesn't look bad (but will definitely be dangerous if my opponent is unprepared).
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 O-O 8.c3 d5 9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.d3
This was the critical line back then.
What do you play against 6.Bg5 Najdorf?
I have occasionally applied the Marshall gambit with Black, though i am basically a 1... c5 player. I liked it, because it has complex tactical positions where even a strong player (playing the white side) can go astray easily.
However, i think the Zaitsev (or Breyer) variations are more solid, and this suits a different playing style. Not to forget the Taimanov variation (Na5). These positions i play only with white.
The Berlin is of course very solid, white might play d3 to avoid the line involving the exchange of queens, thus ensuring a "fuller board".
What do you play against 6.Bg5 Najdorf?
Thirty five moves of book lines, or whatever is close to hand. Aren't they equivalent?
Against 6.Bg5?
The blood Diamond 6...Nbd7, forget about heavy theoretical lines and test your opponents intuition. Either you will survive through hell or you will die happy!
The natural way to meet 8.h3 as an anti-Marshall is by another gambit: 8...Bb7 9.d3 d5!
This has different characteristics from the Marshall (maybe x_patzer has already refuted it), but it's reliable. The main line goes 10.exd5 Nxd5 11.Nxe5 Nxe5! 12.Rxe5 Qd6 13.Re1 Rae8, where Black uses his superior development to prevent natural piece deployment by white. There are over 30 games played from that position (three of them are mine)- Black is doing well.
Aha, good to know...
What should I play then, if h3 is met by Bb7? a4? d4?
Pfren exaggerates based on his own bias.
After 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 O-O
White has several choices.
Some are better than others.
However, alot of different options have been tryed.
8.a4 - Anti-Marshall line
8.h3 - Trying to transpose into the mainline
8.c3 - This allows the Marshall
8.d4 - Hits the e5 pawn.
8.d3 - Defends the e4 pawn. It is a quieter approach.
The moves highlighted in blue text are playable sidelines. However, they are not the most common.
The moves highlighted in green text avoid the Marshall.
The move highlighted in red text allow the Marshall.
After the below moves:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 O-O 8.h3
If black plays 8...d6 which defends the e5.
White has nothing better to do than to play 9.c3.
The reason why is because the move 8...d6 threatens Na5 winning white's the Light Square Bishop.
Black would than have the bishop pair etc.
Thus, white responses with 9.c3 which gives the light square bishop a retreating square.
After those sequence of moves the line transposes back into the mainlines of the Ruy Lopez.
Which shows how 8.h3 is perfectly fine in that regard.
In the gambit line Pfren is talking about which stems from 8.h3.
Black plays 8...Bb7.
The idea black has is to sac a pawn for some quick initiative.
Pfren wants you to believe based on his own bias that white is doomed in this position.
However, that is nothing more than an exaggeration!
8...Bb7 doesn't refute 8.h3.
White is doing fine!
Now granted black has a nice position with some initiative.
However, black is giving up 1 pawn in order to do this!
"A pawn is A pawn."
Black has to prove compensation.
Most games played in this position seem to be drawn.
Thus, it is safe to say black has some compensation.
However, don't fool yourself!
If you play black in this position you better be well prepared.
You are giving white 1 extra pawn.
If white wiggles out of your attack he may very well convert that extra pawn into a win.
The fact Pfren likes to hide whites chances here is absurd.
The mainline goes like Pfren said:
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 O-O 8.h3 Bb7 9.d3 d5 10.exd5 Nxd5 11.Nxe5 Nxe5 12.Rxe5 Qd6 13.Re1 Rae8
There is another side line with 13...c5 in that position as well.
However, I think 13...Rae8 is the main move.
After 13...Rae8
I play 14.Nd2 trying to develop more pieces to meet blacks attack.
After which I have seen black play the move 14...Nf6 which defends the e4 square.
Black trys to seek control of the e4 square.
Trying to make it hard for white to plant a piece there.
After that move white has a few different options.
15.a4
15.Nf3
15.Nf1
Even a line which I like to call the bail out line(15.Ne4)!
I think the moves highlighted in green text try to keep fighting on with the extra pawn.
I think the move highlighted in red text give back the pawn to reach a dry position.
How is black going to crush white in such a dry position.
The move 15.Ne4 is not even a critical move.
We can label 15.Ne4?? with a double question mark and black still can't do jack in this position.
The mighty 8...Bb7 gambit line.
White is playing cop out moves and black still can't win.
It is obvious Pfren bias is clouding his judgement.
Than you say why people don't listen to some title players?
If you want to avoid playing 8.h3 because of this scary 8...Bb7 gambit line.
Than by all means go ahead!
However, I don't have to listen to such rubbish.
When the world champion plays a4 it gains in popularity, yes, there's a very aggressive line (Keres, I think), but calm lines are available as well, as for the bishop's opening, c6 followed by a5 makes sense, whereby the rook from a8 can get into play through a6, probably a good line for black. Marshall attack: 12.Bd5 cd5 13.d4 Bd6 14.Re3 Qh4 15.h3 Qf4 (g5) - big deal.
You are playing the Sicilian because it gives great counter attacking chances. When you put your opponent out of his book lines on the early stage of the opening you increase the posibilities to gain something more. In those situations the better player OTB wins not the most well prepared.
Here is a game i finished recently in this line. It was a draw after mutual inacurate play but it was out of theory early on.
Let's see what happens when white bites the pawn on d5.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 O-O 8.c3 d5
9.exd5 Nxd5 10.Nxe5 Nxe5 11.Rxe5 c6 12.d4 Bd6 13.Re1 Qh4 14.g3 Qh3 15.Bxd5 cxd5 16.Qf3 Bf5 17.Qxd5 Rae8 18.Bd2 Bf4 19.Rxe8 Rxe8 20.Qg2 Qh5 21.gxf4? (f3 better but not good enough) Bh3! 0-1
Sure, study the marshall, and be prepared to see 8.c3 once in 100 games 
I stopped playing the Najdorf after a game against a 14xx player went 18 moves deep. I accidentally transposed moves at that point and my opponent immediately made a fatal mistake. Since then, I've avoided long main lines as Black, at least against lower rated players.
I know it's unfair, but against lower rated opponents I like even positions where both players have to think for themselves.
However, I don't have to listen to such rubbish.
Blame it on your defective ears. It seems your momma pulled them a lot a few years ago.
Players (GM's) who have adopted that line OTB as Black (up to 13...Rae8, which almost universally goes on 13.Nd2 c5):
Tomashevsky, Kamsky, Fressinet, Nyback, Fressinet, Brkic, S.B. Hansen, Anna Muzichuk, Bachmann, Pavlidis, Hawkins, Das, Sevian, Kaufman, and correspondence GM's Busemann, Stalmach, Kupsys. I leave players with lower titles alone (they are plenty of them who played the variation).
x_nobody would surely crush them all... or it's just my imagination?
The Najdorf 6.Bg5 Nbd7 has no theory? That's a good joke...
Negi's repertoire book alone deals with just ONE white line (6.Qe2, incidentally one of the sharpest and most critical and fills 70 thick pages with variations and sub-variations, some of them extending over move thirty. Doesn't sound as too much to learn, and after that Black has to deal with just six more white lines. Piece of cake, just work on it for 5 hours per day for the next eight months, and you will be an expert "without theory"...
The most likely scenario you will meet when you don't play against woodpushers (where 1...a6 is almost a winning position for Black) is that of post no.118
People are still illusory about playing the openings professionals employ. In reality, they are wasting their time for nothing- they will never be able to play these lines properly, and/ or keep them up-to-date.
My main problem in adopting the Breyer has been...
No one at my level seems to want to play main lines. Just reaching the quintessential Spanish position after 9.h3 has been rare for me (as either color).
This was the same problem I encountered when I tried the Breyer. It was rare I even got there, so I ditched it.
This is why I go about trying to get to the Closed Spanish via a Modern Steinitz move order. If White doesn't allow my Siesta 5.c3 f5, or doesn't potentially fall for the Noah's Ark trap after 5.d4 b5 6.Bb3 Nxd4, then on 5.0-0 I play 5...b5 (immediately, to avoid White playing his bishop back to c2 in one move if he plays c3 before ...b5) 6.Bb3 Nf6. Now sidelines such as 7.Ng5 d5 or 7.a4 Bg4 will suit us just fine, as they will be sidelines WE are prepared for. Otherwise if White continues with Re1/c3 on the next couple of moves, we play ...Be7 and ...0-0 and voila, closed Ruy