What do you guys think about this line?
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Simple solution: 6.Be3 or 7.Be3.
The lines with white's bishop on d4 are quite different than with Qd4.
logozar wrote:
Simple solution: 6.Be3 or 7.Be3.
The lines with white's bishop on d4 are quite different than with Qd4.
7. Be3 Ng4 and black is better
Pretty sure 7. f3 is best, for complicated reasons. Caruana played it vs Carlsen, got great position, still managed to lose. But your final position is also better for white, and it's known to be, it's not "tactically better"...not sure where you came up with this
Apr 28, 2017
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#6
pizzacataco wrote:
Now white is perplexed by the position, and black is tactically better.
Apr 28, 2017
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#8
It doesn't quite fit here, but I'm reminded of something I heard a player say once:
"This is not where theory ends, this is where theory begins"
Stopping at move 12 seems random. If you could show that black simplifies, or successfully gets in one of his desired breaks (b5, d5, or f5) then maybe you could say something like "and white's play is neutralized" or "black has good play" or something like that.
Apr 28, 2017
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#10
jengaias wrote:
And why white is better in this position?
The usual maroczy reasons: no targets for black, no (easy) pawn breaks for black, white has more space.
Apr 28, 2017
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#11
jengaias wrote:
Maybe it is better for Black to play Bd7 and Bc6.
This seems equal.
I often get confused in Maroczy games for what to do next, or which move order to use.
This is one game I tried to use as a model though. Even though it's a rapid game, I think it has a few useful themes. Like white getting to play b4 and mobilize his queenside pawns. White also gets the f5 break in.
Apr 28, 2017
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#12
By the way, the mysterious looking 17.Rc2 is to be able to meet black's plan of 17...Qb4 and 18...a4 with 18.Qc1 and now a3 b4 is possible.
Black couldn't do it on move 16 due to tactical stuff you can check with an engine if you like, but due to those tactics black plays 16...Rfc8 first.
Apr 28, 2017
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#13
The_Chin_Of_Quinn wrote:
jengaias wrote:
Maybe it is better for Black to play Bd7 and Bc6.
This seems equal.
I often get confused in Maroczy games for what to do next, or which move order to use.
This is one game I tried to use as a model though. Even though it's a rapid game, I think it has a few useful themes. Like white getting to play b4 and mobilize his queenside pawns. White also gets the f5 break in.
This is a game I use as a model of how to handle the ...Bd7-c6 plan. It's not so different than any other sicilian. It's just that Black has achieved a small victory in forcing White to play f3 when he would rather play f4 and attack. So Black is going to do everything possible to create counterplay and keep White from playing this move. Whenever White is able to play f4 he just does normal sicilian attacking stuff.
I think this plan with ...Bd7-c6 is supposed to be more poular than the ...Be6 plan because against the latter White can play f4 in one go.
Bd7-c6 is probably better than this Be6+Rfc8. However...yeah I think super GMs don't play this with black for a reason
There's a very large amount of theory there, but I don't care to delve into it especially since I'm not on my computer
#1 is not even the start of the mainline Gurgenidze.
After 13.b3 a6 14.Na4! Qxd2+ 15.Kxd2 Nd7 16.g4 theory goes for another 15 moves or so. It's drawable, but Black's position is not pleasant.
Black is solid in many Maroczy lines, but equality is another thing.
StupidGM έγραψε:
Reading the replies here makes me glad I've put in the years I've spent turning 3. c4 into a viable main line against all Sicilians. Anyone who thinks "theory goes on for fifteen more moves" after move 12 is about eighteen moves off (the real theory ends in that line with Nxd4).
I have book wins in the Marcozy that even IMs and GMs repeatedly fall into, and then fall into others as they think they cn correct their mistakes, which they often do with other mistakes. Most of my opponents refuse to even try me in this line.
I wouldn't bother to argue: that would make your psychiatrist very unhappy.
Apr 29, 2017
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#17
Larry Evans wrote in the tenth edition of Modern Chess Openings (1965) that in response to the Accelerated Dragon, the Maróczy Bind "was once considered a refutation but now has lost much of its punch. White retains an advantage in space but Black's position is fundamentally sound." That remains the prevailing view. (Wikipedia)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar%C3%B3czy_Bind
Honestly, in the Maroczy lines of the HA Dragon, Black's position is sound, but it's very hard to play and probably is not objectively great for Black anyway.
Apr 29, 2017
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#19
I think it's telling that old pros (1950s and before?) considered it a mistake for black to allow the bind.
Just like the Berlin used to be considered a mistake.
I'm guessing it's somewhat a practical mistake for amateurs to try to adopt either of these as black... at least without a good amount of work, but I've never tried them as black so I don't really know.
Against most typical Maroczy positions, Most GMs prefer the Hedghog line, with pawns at a6, b6, d6, and e6...B@b7, Q@c8
The Maroczy Bind has to be one of the most annoying openings ever, and it squeezes black into terror. Here is a solution.